Reg WAS trying to tie me to blab for like half of D5, then when I moved over to hard scumreading blab he just voted blab with me instead. I think he started pushing you/blab because I was making me/blab too hard a sell, and/or he wanted BOTH of us as possible mislynches in case something went wrong (e.g. Miner getting lynched, as turned out to happen)

If they'd actually managed to lynch blab, I imagine it'd be about "oh but dC/Miner is possible too!!!" after Miner flipped the next day.

---------- Post automerged at 01:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:29 PM ----------

EBWOP: So yeah, lynch me at f4. Or lynch you at f4, relying on me to back them up after I buy more of Reg's bullshit.

 

I literally cannot wrap my head around dC right now.

Ghhhh.

 

Okay but then if the plan was push blab/dC dC/miner worlds so they could go blab->you to clinch it why does Reg just stonewall me when I push you/miner pretty much all day?

Actually I'm being dumb he just lynches blab and then says "okay fable I'm ready to listen to you" and then pushes your lynch but even still that's not how he's playing this, instead he's keeping me in the PoE to presumably tilt the shit out of me.

Like let me think this out Reg started by agreeing with me on lynching you but then switches over to blab/me? For what reason? Why as a wolf take one mislynch and instead of staying the course on it turn around completely and choose a different mislynch while alienating the only person V reading him? I don't understand what wolf!Reg gets out of that.

 

At any point during this process did you remember that you were townreading blab for the same thing not that long before?

 

Thing with Fable is if he's scum he could have already won this game very easily by doing... literally anything but what he's been doing the entire game. Like why does Fable bother to build up town cred by bussing all of his partners and being on the right side of every argument if he doesn't cash it in some way (i.e. on D4 he could have chain lynched me->Reg pretty much for free and at that point town would have no chance pretty much). So I'm not really paying that much attention to the possibility of him being scum.

I just want to double check that blab and Stanari are both town and then it should be a lock either way.

 

Like I said, I think one possible motivation is that his stated scumworld for me was dC/blab and I suddenly started making that very hard to push safely. (This is another thing I'm kind of >_> about, I have no idea why town!Reg wouldn't immediately assume I was bussing. Like, he outright said "do this to get a townread from me" and then ACTUALLY TOWNREAD ME FOR DOING IT. That's either incredibly naive or scumplay)

Also I was coming around to a V read on him, so he was alienating you in exchange for de-alienating me. As for WHY he'd do the trade, he may have considered you more volatile? Or that it made him look good to be "reevaluating"? (he's been doing THAT all game >_>)

Plus, it gave him a safety net for if Miner went down where he has two people he's expressed suspicion on that he can try and use as his two mislynches. If he'd just stuck with me and locked you in as town, he'd be legit completely screwed now.

Nnnnnope. I wasn't even aware I'd said the first thing until you quoted it today. The back-and-forth with Reg put it out of my mind (not that that's Reg's doing particularly, just that it was big and demanded my attention)

---------- Post automerged at 01:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 PM ----------

Oh good, he's legit completely screwed anyway. >:V

 

Something something wouldn't scum be paying more attention to their stances?

But also something something how the hell do you forget that???

 

By being bad.

We've been over this :V

 

I...do not think you are this bad.

 

(more seriously, by D5 being a slogfest that I kind of went through without thinking very much about what I was saying, rather just stream of consciousnessing all over the thread.

...also by being bad)

---------- Post automerged at 02:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------

Like.

I don't remember very much of D5 at all. It's kind of a blur. I remember getting the scum!blab lockin and stuff like the Reg/Miner crossbus thing, but talking with Reg in circles for that long was kind of exhausting.

---------- Post automerged at 02:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:03 PM ----------

tl;dr I pointed out shit I saw and then forgot about it entirely because I got distracted by other shit.

 

See, I think in a town stream of consciousness there is the "wait, what?" moment.

I think D5 notes are probably more productive than talking myself into a knot here though, so I'll drop it for now.

 

Consciousness is probably the wrong word, then, because I'm inclined to agree with you. Stream of surface-level observations? Stream of contextless content? Stream of...bad? :V

The point is, I was making very low-context observations about things. I had a sort of rough overall plan where blab was scum and if blab was somehow town Reg/Miner were both scum, but in terms of considering WHY I was thinking these things? pfffffffffffffff

 

But like why did you do it? That just makes it seem like you were more concerned with getting V read than solving the game.

---------- Post automerged at 12:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:25 AM ----------

Like just that you were that aware of it just give me the impression your intentions were less than pure there. Along with the fact that you didn't have a problem with it at the time.

 

Well for starters, I'd expect town!Reg to pick up on this.

As for why I did it, it's because he produced this argument that basically ran "Blab's stance is that we might be in 4scum world and if we are the scumteam is Reg, or we might be in 5scum world and if we are the scumteam is Reg/Miner

However, he is currently voting for Miner rather than me"

I viewed this as an open-and-shut inconsistency, so I hopped onto blab.

The other components of what he said I would be doing if I were town were also actual, legitimate good town behaviour. So if I started doing those, it's because I actually figured it was a good idea from a playing to wincon perspective.

---------- Post automerged at 02:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:33 PM ----------

EBWOP: Expressing a problem with it at the time would just have gotten in the way of lynching "confirmed scum" blab. I was wary, but at the same time lynching blab would demonstrate whether Reg was scum or not so there was little point worrying about it.

Like, my position has very much been not NEEDING to read Reg once the PoE settled in because I know I'm not scum and therefore that he is.

 

I mean that is one thing I will give you is that wolf you gets the Reg mislynch today I kind of don't see where you go from there since you always get lynched after that. That being said it could always be a vira in WH8 situation where it's just a matter of running out of mislynches so you have no good options after Reg which does ring true in this situation.

 

I mean, I feel like I don't put myself in that position yesterday if that's the case. Like, it would have been easy enough to not subscribe to "blab/Miner is impossible" world (Vaimes didn't!) and try and keep blab around for mislynching.

Like, I think if I was mafia here I shot myself in the foot by turbotunnelling Reg when I could just as easily have gone wide enough to get more than one mislynch. You can argue this is wine, except any scum trying to use this sort of wine are basically relying on town producing a new mislynch FOR them since they're not doing it.

 

Morning, I just want to say that it was kind of heartwarming to wake up yesterday and see basically all the conf!town going "no, we're not lynching blab, we're lynching miner" while Reg/dC really tried to make it happen.
Kinda wish whoever of Reg/dC is town had an aha moment when it was like:
Blab(3) Reg, dC, miner
Miner(5) Blab, Vaimes, Pienyan, Fable, Stanari
but whatever.
Sort of buy dC's opening post because of that but if he is scum he had the whole night to craft it so, eh.

I will say that Regfans behaviour yesterDay makes so much sense for miner/Regfan.
Looking for mislynches, the happiness when Fable voted dC, the crafting of a "at least one scum in "Fable/dC" (and "blab/miner"), the consolidation on me after it ended up me vs. miner, the tireless working over every townie to lynch me instead of miner (or in the end to just get the no-lynch) because his winchances basically went from realistic (blab->miner->dC) to near nonexistent.
Kind of feels too obvious, but not going to townread Reg for that.
dC also looks bad, but he has at least a couple posts where I can't see the scummotivation, like the "I will say it, blab is just town" post, his flip-flopping looks so slimily convenient though.

I want to reread 5 things primarily:
1) Miner->Regfan; Miner->(regfan/pienyan) from D3 on. That's basically the largest reason I feel against a miner/regfan team. Going to look if Miner's behavior is even plausible as a scummate of Regfan.
2)Day 1 reads: scum!Regfan would have townread all 4 of his co-wolfes. Don't remember dC's. Kinda want to look how those townreads developed.
Want to see if "I am going to powerwolf!.....Shit, my scummates aren't town enough..." feels more likely than Regfan just having the single worst possible mutation of reads by chance.
3) Day 2 end: I remember dC voting Zenzao and then Zenzao pretty immediately scumclaiming. Also felt like the opposite of "trying to get some towncred for bussing" from dC, but that's super weak. Going to look for Regfan's reaction to the Zenzao implosion, cause I can't recall it clearly.
4) Cobalt's claim and reaction fest.
5) dC's had a couple things that might be slips. I remember something something "concede if miner lynch", back-up rolecop.

---------- Post automerged at 03:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:43 AM ----------

Skimmed a bit on phone,
regarding 1):
In a vacuum I still lean miner/Reg/pienyan W/T/T. I guess it's possible miner poked the Regfan/pienyan interaction like that knowing it's W/T in an attempt to make himself look good, didn't really want to pursue, and the stuff after follows after he was called out for not really solving the Reg/pienyan situation after saying he was going to spend the time solving the Reg/pienyan situation. But it's still an indicator for W/T/T, imo.
regarding 3)
dC's Jarizok shade is pretty bad in hindsight, if you see the Plotless lynch and know one is scum, but the rest of the players are pretty widely townread, is your reaction "jarizok is scum, because at least 1 scum pulled the lynch off of him"? But after that he gets convinced to vote Zenzao, and votes Zenzao with a 'I dunno, if everyone else is convinced, then it's selfish of me to delay to get a handle on things myself'. Think that comes more likely from town? At least, I expect scum to try to own the vote more if he busses as the doublevoter and basically kills all hope for a non-Zen lynch.
Meh
Reg again with both miner/Cobalt relatively high on his reads, but I didn't feel like his comments about spewing came necessarily from a "Zenzao, please stop spewing!" perspective, which I kind of suspected it could.
regarding 5)
Think the symmetry argument is maybe a tiny argument for uninformed, because even-night roleblocker/full rolecop.
Still think the word conceding comes easier from scum, but I didn't actually find the post where he wrote it. I hope I don't look stupid and just imagined it.

---------- Post automerged at 03:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:38 AM ----------

Think we hit scum if we lynch dC/Reg in whichever order, so really all this is just so I can overall improve from "pretty bad reads" to "meh reads" if I get it right.

Ignoring who is actually likelier scum, I would want to lynch Reg, because my boy Jarizok deserves the vindication of miner/cobalt/reg getting lynched right after he was mislynched if he called all three D1.
Also, still don't

 

Is there a D5 associative reason to clear blab?

---------- Post automerged at 11:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 AM ----------

To be clear, I have other reasons to clear blab.

I have a lot of thoughts on dC vs Reg but they mostly boil down to me wanting to murderize both of them.

---------- Post automerged at 12:03 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:41 AM ----------

I'm sure this says something.

 

Yeah, that also looks like it could come from scum.

Still think Regfan focusing on townreads for D1 and townreading either all his scummates or townreading all 5 scum looks a bit worse.
Like his focus on presenting his townreads constantly makes more sense from a powerwolf perspective, who wants to force townreads on his scumbuddies by sheer thread-presence.
If Reg is town, he townread all 5 wolfes, I can believe bad reads (mine were pretty bad) but that's something where I lean that there is probably an informed mindset behind it.

Going to look at how dC's Fable read evolved, but I think I lean towards Reg for the moment.

 

Was just rereading the thread to make sure there wasn't anything I missed and this wolf team (from right before cobalt got lynched) seems weird since I believe Reg was firmly against the idea of miner/blab yesterday. I'm gonna keep reading but can anyone remember if this got explained?

---------- Post automerged at 06:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:18 PM ----------

So I don't think Reg makes a case against a partner this detailed only to go back on it later but at the same time HOW IN THE EVER LIVING FUCK did we go from this to "miner is gonna flip town"?

---------- Post automerged at 06:43 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------

2727

But at the same time dC is making a case on Reg while giving an extremely weak reason to tr miner.

I really need to find where the flip happened.

---------- Post automerged at 07:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:43 PM ----------

2809

Okay this is the first mention of blab/miner being unaligned. And I kind of get the logic for the flip on why blab/miner doesn't make sense since is based mostly on things that happened that day after the cobalt lynch. But then him going all in on blab and dropping the miner case still doesn't make sense. Like I would think in terms of a normal progression this would have made blab more likely to be a villager to Reg.

*keeps reading*

---------- Post automerged at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

2977

First mention of blab is worse than miner. But saying blab's play was wolfier than miner's seems disingenuous when miner pretty much wasn't posting at all.

---------- Post automerged at 07:45 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

3046, 3048, 3052

So now the miner read is weakening because fonti was V reading miner which okay that seems kind of contrived considering it's happening so late in the day and that seems like a bad reason to throw away that entire case. And he becomes more sure on blab/me being the team effectively because I won't be his cheerleader like he wants. Awesome. Fucking great.

Regfan

Be honest how much of your blab read and the strength of it actually had to do with me?