Finished the book. Stewed it over for a day to gather my thoughts. I loved it, but Murphy really bugged the shit out of me. Not cause of her reaction to Harry being alive or anything like that, I assumed she heard it through Butters or sussed out what Mab had done on her own. I was more irritated with the whole 'you've changed, Harry' angle. Well no shit. He died. And he has constant temptation in front of him on account of the mantle constantly trying to change him. But you'd think watching Dresden turn down power and resist temptation, such as a shade of a Fallen Angel in his head, would give her a bit more faith in his ability to resist it.

The reveal with the faerie courts bugged me at first. After thinking about it, though, I'm more in line with Taure's thinking. Who gives a shit if Winter's army outnumbers Summer's by a jillion to one? That's never been the point.

Mab is Winter. Titania is Summer. They're still the perfect counter to each other. As long as Titania is around, it doesn't matter how many troops Winter has. Titania can still drag Mab to oblivion with her.

I really, really feel like the Winter Knight is here to stay, especially with the reveal that Mab, and by extension the Winter court, exists to protect us from Outsiders. We know Harry has some power over them, and it's a safe bet that they'll factor in majorly near the end. Just makes sense that Harry, someone who can hurt Outsiders, would be the Knight of the sidhe directly opposed to them.

Speaking of the Outsiders, something occured to me. That huge battle we witnessed? What side of the Outer Gates were they on? I assume they're an actual doorway. If so, were Rashid and the army trying to keep the Outsiders from getting to the doorway? Or were the Outsiders already through and Rashid's keeping them from establishing a beach head, so to speak?

Redcap was awesome, at the beginning. By the end of the book, I just wanted him to go away.

 

Any and all jokes made about Thomas's sex life made me laugh. I don't know why, but I couldn't help it.

 

First. Holy Fucking Shit Arse Tits Motherfucker that was awesome.

Second, my reads on the book, in no specific order.

Mac is an Angel, or used to be. I've had the idea for a long while now and him being called watcher by He-Who-Walks-Before just cemented the idea in my mind. It would explain why he picks his words so carefully. I wonder if we totted up Mac's advice, would we see a correlation to Denarian actions in counter to them?

Mab is awesome, but more than that I remember a line from Changes (when Harry strikes out against the Lords of the Outer Night) that stuck with me as a big bit of foreshadowing at the time. She was described as 'darkest guardian the earth had ever known'. Seems that foreshadowing came true.

The Summer Court's purpose being to counter Winter in the mortal world both makes sense and is freaking awesome. Harry summoning Titania was one of those Oh Shit moments that I read this series for. And then he tops that by summoning Mother Winter. And then he tops that again by summoning Mab! Fuck but there were some seriously awesome moments in this book.

Best quote of the book: "I could scatter your bones to the far corners of the earth. I could feed you to my garden and make you scream the entired while. I could visit torments on you that would make Lloyd Slate's fate seem kind by comparison. I want to eat your heart."

Titania is one scary bitch, though it was very interesting to learn that Mab and Titania are sisters. I'd had Maeve and Aurora pegged as half-sisters with Oberon as their father before this.

Lily. Oh Lily. You suffered so much and now you're dead. Her death was the... I've lost count, Oh Fuck moment of the book. Couldn't believe it when it happened, though I suppose the monologue should have tipped me off. Aurora did the same thing before she died, near enough. Hell, Cassius too... Lord Raith... It's surprisingly common amongst villains about to be made irrelevant.

A few of you have said that Molly wouldn't become a Sidhe on becoming Winter Lady. I think you're wrong. Lily didn't have a choice when she became Summer Lady, and while she was already a Changeling the principle is the same. Free Will was subverted to make her the Summer Lady and to make her Fae. Molly should be no different, following that logic.

Hell, Molly is even a little like Maeve to begin with. Impulse control issues, temptations ruling her, giving in to the dark side numerous times. I'm not convinced Molly is strong enough to not give in to the Mantle and become a second Maeve either.

The Winter Mantle looks to be even more corruptive than black magic, but it's definitely powerful. Harry probably should have realised that going up against one of the Queens of Winter with her own power wouldn't end up going too well, though it was interesting to see Harry go through the same mind effects as the hexenwulfen belts for a time.

Harry's increased sex drive in this book is also directly linked to it, so I guess we're going to be seeing that more in the next few books.

This book is also the first time we've undeniably seen Harry break the First Law of Magic, when he dropped that Wild Hunt Hound that turned back into a man. I can't help but think that's going to have consequences in the oncoming books, especially in conjunction with the Mantle.

Cat Sith was brilliant, he's far and away my new favourite side character. A shame he's been infected, though I get the impression that it was shoddily done on him, so it may not take as well as it should. The usual way it works, or so I've gathered, is more subtle than that. A lot harder to fight against too. It took Mab years to cure Lea, and now she can't even think about it in case she makes herself vulnerable again. That'll be interesting to watch.

I had Demonreach's purpose somewhat figured beforehand, though I had thought it was a prison for Lucifer, or the Outer Gates. Makes me wonder if there aren't more Wells filled with ancient monsters around the world. Wouldn't surprise me to learn that there was one at Chichen Itza. It was a bit gratifying to know that my mini-theory of Lake Michigan being created to house the prison was halfway true (it was chosen as the site for the prison, though if the genius loci has existed since the last Ice Age that would mean it existed before the prison did).

Time travel looks complicated and awesome. I'm looking forward to the book where Harry breaks that particular Law. I'm beginning to see how Rashid could be old enough to have took down Abdul Al Hazred now too. If he spent most of his time at the Outer Gates, and the time dilation was reversed to what it was in this book, he'd be able to pass centuries in the real world without ageing significantly. Merlin was a badass.

Odin and Kringle being one and the same makes a lot of sense, but does that make Kringle an old god or Odin a Faerie? Or both? Or neither? Or only at certain times? Different mantles for different times, I suppose.

The Redcap seemed a bit stale as a bad guy, though he made a great first impression. Correct me if I'm wrong but he's supposed to be the eldest of the Redcaps, like Cat Sith is to Malks or the Scarecrow was to Fetches. If so he really didn't match up to them in any way, though him being Ace's father was quite interesting. He's still alive too, and Harry killed his son. So yeah, I'm kinda ambivalent about him. Could be an interesting recurring villain though, but he just felt so... amateurish. Why drop the building when he could rig explosives under the floor and just blow them all to hell?

Nemesis I'm not sure on either. It seems Jim is going for another hivemind alien evil, but given that the Gatebreaker (HWWB is reserved for the other Walker) didn't display any overt signs of recognition of Harry (and the fact that they have individual Names) suggests that they're not wholly ant-like in nature. Also got to wonder if Nemesis is one of the Old Ones or just another footsoldier, given that he's the equivalent of a sapper for the Outsiders. Where does he fit in the hierarchy? I expect to see a He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named joke somewhere in the next couple of books. Also. Who summoned them? Mortal magic is required to summon Outsiders, so who summoned the Gatebreaker?

That's all for now. It was a good read. I enjoyed it a lot more than Changes or Ghost Story, though I think I liked Turn Coat better. This one had a heavy breath of catharsis to it, bringing a bunch of loose ends together and tying them off to make way for the new plots. I wasn't expecting Molly as the Winter Lady, or Sarissa as Summer Lady (though I did kinda expect her to take Maeve's place, given that she'd been all but ordered to stay by Harry's side until he killed Maeve).

 

Well I absolutely loved the book especially after what that thing that was called a Dresden Files book that we read before this.

Everything with the Fae I basically think was incredible and I can't wait for us to see more of it in the future. The whole Molly = Winter Lady now did make me go WTF! for a little bit but I agree with a previous poster that the whole Mab saying that she used to be mortal made me accept it. I really like Molly anyways so I just want to see what JB does with it.

Demonreach is by far one of the coolest things ever though and I loved Dresden threatening Mab with it.

Mab is a character that I think I have kind of fallen in love with after this book. She has a lot more depth now and I can see some similar characteristics between her and Dresden that I think makes her much more interesting now.

 

Also, Harry going through basically an entire battle, Mexican Stand-Off and climax in the buff is just hilarious, now that I think about it. The ice claws were pretty cool too. Even in the nude Harry can kick a ton of ass.

 

Uh, sudden thought. Nemesis couldn't be He Who Walks Within, could he? Or do I have LittleChicago to blame for that idea?

 

One thing I don't get: if there's this massive battle at the Outer Gates to keep the Outsiders out of this universe, then how come a small army of them are in it, at the end of this book? And, for that matter, how have the Outsiders from previous books made it through the Outer Gates?

When the Gates were a metaphor, you could say that it was because they were summoned from inside. But now that they have to physically pass the gates to enter our universe, it doesn't make too much sense that they're here...

 

Black council summoning. They couldn't have gotten an army out without help. Besides, it's not like the winter forces are invincible and a lot of people were busy with that Maeve debacle. They could have also slipped past.

 

I'm assuming that the Outsiders cannot enter except through the outer gaters. Unless a Mortal contacts them and lets them in.
(An additional reason for the Oblivion War. If nobody knows of certain horrible beings, it's hard to let them in.)
How the Outsider in this story managed to get all his goons with him, I don't know. Maybe they were constructs of some sort. They seemed easily disposed of.

 

Mab said that even Rashid, at the focus of his power, can't be 100 % sure that someone hasn't been infected by Nemesis. Also, his eye, which is made up of the same material as the Outer Gates, is supposed to check if an outsider isn't hidden away inside a Sidhe. Outsiders could've fooled Rashid. Or maybe it was Nemesis itself that summoned them somehow.

Question - Is there any particular difference b/w an Outsider and a Walker? Or is a Walker a type of Outsider?

 

I actually wonder if this might be somewhat similar to the situation with denarians? I mean we know there are two types of denarians.

There are the mindless thugs, which have been totally mind-controlled into being mindless drones, and these guys are explained (both in the books and I think in WOJ) to be pretty pathetic.

And then we have guys like Nicodemus, who still has his mind and is actually working together with his fallen in a symbiotic relationship, and this balanced union between host and possessing fallen results in both being MASSIVELY more danegrous than the mindless thugs.

Could the Nemesis possession work in a similar way? I mean compare Maeve and Cat Sith. Its pretty clear that Cat Sith did NOT want to work with Nemesis, which is why when Harry tried to encourage Sith to resist, it almost seemed like for a moment it was fighting back and regained some control. And right after that, Nemesis seemed to basically destroy Sith utterly and take full and total control. Whats more, Harry said that the real Cat Sith could have killed him and torn out his spine, but Nemesis possessed Sith could not do that, making him far weaker.

In comparison to the denarians, this would fit in the thug category. There was no union between host and possessor, Cat Sith opposed Nemesis, and the result was that Nemesis was forced to control Sith totally, resulting in a much weaker Sith.

However from Sarissa we learned that in order for Mab to cure someone from Nemesis possession, the victim has to (on some level) want to be cured. But it was then made clear that Maeve actually loved the newfound freedoms (such as the ability to lie, make free willed choices and so on) Nemesis offered. Mab could not capture and forcibly cure Maeve the way she did Lea, because Maeve was actually working with Nemesis and did not WANT to be healed.

So unlike Cat Sith (enslaved thug), Maeve was more like Nicodemus (willing collaborator) in that she wanted Nemesis and was actually working with the thing rather than just being 100% mind controlled. This also might explain why she was still so powerfull and clever, and why even Mab could not stop her from killing Lily. Because by working together willingly with Nemesis, Maeve gained great power, just as working willingly with Anduriel gives Nicodemus great power.

If true, that would mean that Nemesis is not exactly like the borg, but more like the fallen, and the best and most dangerous bad guys are not the totally possessed, but the ones like Maeve who actually welcome Nemesis and collaborate with it in exchange for the power boosts/benefits Nemesis gives its hosts.

At the end of the book when Harry asks if its possible to detect the influence of Nemesis with the trick Lily showed, Mab confirms that this is not possible and Maeve was just playing Lily. But after that, Mab then goes on to say that its much harder to detect the influence of the adversary, and that not even the Gatekeeper at his most powerfull can ever be absolutely certain.

That means that there is indeed a chance for Nemesis to have snuck in the outer gates inside a wounded sidhe. The Gatekeeper would have looked at the wounded to see if they were possessed that way, but as Mab said thats not a foolproof process. Its possible that Nemesis is just so subtle and good at hiding, that the Gatekeeper missed it, allowing Nemesis to get past the outer gates and into the real world. After that, it would have been simple enough to jump rfom host to host until it reached Earth.

Though that seems a bit elaborate. We know that mortals can summon outsiders, so a more likely scenario is that a summon of a mortal allows an outsider to bypass the gates, and that they only need to fight their way in if they are acting totally on their own.

 

So, did anyone else keep on calling him Cait Sith in their head?

 

Thing is, they were actual Outsiders, not possessed "insiders".

This was kinda my whole point. The literal existence of the Outer Gates makes it seem like mortals (or any insider) shouldn't be able to summon outsiders, because they have to pass through a guarded gate to enter this universe.

On top of that, you have the sheer numbers of them. Could anyone summon that many Outsiders without someone noticing?

 

On the subject of Odin Claus:

 

@CareOtters. You win at life, good sir.

 

It's even more interesting when you consider that Titania is not the first Summer Queen. Previously I thought that she was the Summer Lady before that, but now I'm not so sure. I think whatever happened when the Mantles of Summer changed their hosts was a little more complicated than that. Maybe it was a hostile takeover by Mab's family which would explain an ice age before the power of Summer changed Titania and Aurora more to its image?

Also, I think the Gates stop the Outsiders from entering in their true forms. It would explain why Harry thought that the Gatebreaker was as powerful as Mab, but we didn't really see this power. Maybe he was using it mostly to keep his temporary form that let him interact with this world.

 

I think that was a bit of Unreliable Narrator Syndrome. Harry basically managed to go toe to toe with HWWB at Mac's pub, and finally outsmarted/outsped him at the island. The reason Outsiders are so dangerous is their nigh-invulnerability to magic, not their massive power. Though they're pretty dangerous enemies even without that.

 

Except he didn't break the First Law. He used a gun. There wasn't any magic involved there.

He's probably going to feel guilty about it (though I doubt we'll ever see screentime of his reaction to it), but it's not going to be "corruptive".

To be fair, it's entirely possible that the Gates really are a metaphor or whatever, and that what Dresden saw is a representation of such.

Basically, the way I interpreted it, is that the Outer Gates exist on a level beyond mortal comprehension, and what Dresden saw is simply how his mind understood the various meta-concepts involved. It's not so much a physical place, as Dresden understands it as a physical place.

There's a good chance I'm wrong here, but that's the only way I can see it working and maintaining previous canon on the subject.

 

Nope. He used his "Forzare" spell.

Or it could be like the Demonreach prison and exists in all these levels, and Harry simply saw its physical form and not his own interpretation of what it really was.