There was a Q&A with Jim Butcher recently here where he reveals some info about Book 15. HT: Pinary at the Jim Butcher forums. Quoting Pinary,

 

A heist book? Cool.

Still no word about Ivy showing up, but if Harry is going to work with Denarians for some reason then having her around would add even more drama. Which probably means that she will be there.

 

Considering that Ivy has appeared in every Denarian book thus far, her making an appearance is probably safe assumption for now.

 

So fuck all yall and your big prophecies of death and destruction for the future. Many good and bad parts of the novel have been disscussed here (it was rushed, WAY rushed).
However the best part of the book has yet to be mentioned... Also the funniest!

"Vagazled"... I am not ashamed to admit that I big time lol'd after reading that entire scene.

 

So also finished it.. It is a great book but it seems a bit short, like many others here I would have also liked a bit more focus on the support characters. But I love the Molly thing (In my opinion there quite a few signs that this is the next relationship for Harry) and can´t wait to see how it develops. The parasite thing leaves me hoping for a glorious return of Lash. I also thought that he used a lot less Pop-culture references or at least spread them a lot better than in the last one.

The only really negative thing was how he handled a few of the support characters and their reaction to the return of Dresden but here Jim Butcher is a victim of his own making.. he did create so many interesting characters and organizations and that it is now nearly impossible to use them all in one or even two books. In the earlier books he could focus on Dresden and one or two other characters while now he had Dresden, Mab, Maeve and her twin, Molly, Murphy, Thomas and Butlers. It has to be difficult to manage such a huge cast and still write an action based book and so I hope for a few slower books in which he manages the relationship thingies before the grand finale begins.

 

Thinking a little more about the next book, some more thoughts.

I'd like Harry to have some cool new toys, because a smart wizard is a prepared wizard. But I think that he will just upgrade the old ones. We already saw him preparing to create a new staff from the oldest oak tree on the Demonreach, which is cool. He will definitely enchant his new duster and create a new shield bracelets, since he was complaining about lack of them in this book.

He also needs to think about a new home for Bob, which is the most ambitious project he has yet to try. I actually wonder if it will not end being used by someone else (Lash).

Additionally, I think he could finally use the Soulfire as it should be used and create his new toys with it. Its effect on them should be interesting.

Lastly, I wonder what will be a timeskip between books. I mean, the parasite will soon kill Harry (though who knows how soon it really is when it's Demonreach saying it), so I can't see him doing nothing about it for few months. And I'd like to see Carpenters' reaction to Molly's situation which is also something that should happen soon enough. All in all, I expect another short timeskip, not a year long one like in books before Changes. And I think it will be a norm from now on, meaning we can stop worrying about some characters getting too old before the Trilogy.

 

I still dislike the whole "mantle dies with a human/changeling around, goes into them and slowly corrupts them" idea. Part of the most interesting part of the ideology of the White God was that He basically existed to ensure free will always existed. Yet the mantle removes free will from the occasion (Lily, u mad bro?). While theoretically the mantle can be resisted, it still leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

 

That's a good observation. My explanation would be that powers of Summer and Winter are considered the forces of Nature, not Good or Evil, and because of that don't need to respect the free will of humans.

And one more thing about Molly. If becoming a Lady automatically means you stop being a human and become a Sidhe, it means she died when that happened. Uriel said humans are souls who happen to also have bodies. No soul, no Molly. Unless Sidhe have souls, but then there is a question why the Soulgaze doesn't work on them.

 

Heavily stacked decks are the norm for the Dresdenverse. Just look at Thomas to see how badly things can go for a guy.

I've had this argument before, but I reckon that if Molly uses the mantle enough (or rather, relies on it enough), she'll gradually become one of the Sidhe.

Evidence for:

1) Transformation is possible in the Dresdenverse and if you do it to another person in such a way as to make their new body incompatible with a human mind it will 'kill' them as surely as burning them alive would. This is the reason the Second Law exists.

2) The Summer Lady mantle was gradually transforming Lily into Aurora. When Harry first spots her on the bridge in that garden centre (or whatever it was) he even mistakes her for Aurora for a moment.

3) The mantle of Winter Knight works to transform the holder into a Winter being (like Lloyd Slate was) - so that all they think about is about power, control and cruelty.

4) The Winter Knight mantle is made of the same power that is in the Queens' mantles.

So, following these points: Molly is now holds the mantle of the Winter Lady. If it is like the Winter Knight Mantle (which the case of Lily seems to indicate), it can force Molly into fitting the shape of the Winter Lady, which is a Faerie, but only if she relies on its power. This would 'kill' Molly in the same way as a Second Law violation would, and she would become more like Maeve as it did so. Thus, Molly can become Sidhe by way of the Winter Lady mantle transforming her into being one.

Someone else raised the point that if Molly was forced outright into becoming Sidhe it would violate her Free Will in the same way Lasciel did with Harry. However, if the WL mantle works in a similar way to the WK mantle (forging the holder into being like the mantle wants it to be), it would rely on Molly choosing to use its power and to give up her Free Will. This would bypass the violation of Free Will because Molly would be the one choosing to give it up.

Thoughts? Criticisms?

 

I don't know if it's been asked yet, since I don't have the time to skim the entire thread and check yet. Was there any closure on the scene where Sharkface was introduced? How the hell did he get to the bar? This is as well as the massive force of Outsiders seen at the end; you think someone would've noticed a force that large being pulled across. Unless they were smuggled in smaller loads, throughout the last several months, and were just laying low until Halloween.

I was kind of disappointed that the White Council and White Court didn't show up at all. The book's pretty packed as it is, but those two particularly were mentioned several times by name and seemed to be just a little bit out of reach for the whole time. The Council's reason for not showing up in any way seemed a bit contrived, too obviously just a way of kicking them to the sideline for the duration of the story.

All I can think about is how long it's going to be before the next book.

 

Harry directly quoted the Necrominicon while on the island.

My inner Lovecraftian is hounding for that to not be just because he's read it.

I so want one of those Dark Gods mentioned by Demonreach to be Cthulhu.

Nicodemus: "Dresden. I have a veritable army at my back, and you are one man. How can you stand against me?"

Dresden: "I'm holding Cthulhu's cage shut."

 

To quote Harry Dresden, I'm not sure where the Winter Sidhe falls on in the 'Jedi-Sith index'. That's one thing that actually bothers me a little; the forces of Winter and Summer are said to be forces of nature, rather than pure good and evil. In a way, there's nothing more inherently evil about Winter's actions as compared to those of the Wild Hunt.

Thus, I'm not sure what the whole hoohaa is about Harry being the Winter Knight, and Molly becoming the Winter Lady. I know its supposed to make them into 'monsters', but Harry's standards anyway. Or current standards, since they seem to be changing.

The thing is, neither Mother Winter nor Mab seemed to be Evil. Cruel, manipulative, yes. Maeve was a little spiteful and crazy, but now we know the reason for that (or do we?). Mother Winter and Mab just seemed to have motivations that Harry doesn't understand. And likewise, Leansidhe had been 'kind' to Harry on multiple occasions, namely the time where she offered to bury the corpse of Susan with respect, and really seemed to have a friendship with Harry's mother.

Winter is cruel, but not always cold, that's what was said in Changes.

I don't get why the Winter mantles are supposed to turn Harry and Molly into raving psychotics (other than Jim Butchers saying that it's supposed to be so). I would've thought it would make more sense that Harry is more afraid of becoming a monster through his actions by following the orders from Mab, doing things that he wouldn't normally do - you know, like a normal human being.

ie. to complete Mab's mission (because as the Winter Knight, he really doesn't have the choice not to) he is required to kill, say, a little girl. He does it and despises himself for it, but does it anyway because he has to finish the mission. Rinse and repeat a few times, he becomes desensitised to it, and commit greater and greater cruelties until he ends up behaving like Slate. Starts to lose his regard for the value of human life. Starting thinking since he's already done this before, what's a few more lives? Starts losing his metaphorical soul and finally turn into the 'monster' he was afraid he'd become.

(on a side note, that kinda happens to people in real life. you know, when you do things at work that kinda violates certain personal ethics and principles to keep your job or to suck up to your boss, and you starting hating yourself for it since you've became a person that you didn't want to become).

That would be the kind of struggle I was expecting Harry to have. Not some magical mantle forcing him to be a psychotic raving lunatic. It's kinda like a guy saying, don't ever become a manager in an MNC, you'd become a jerk because all managers in MNCs are jerks. And while you're sitting in that high back leather chair, you'd start changing, just because there's a evil external voice in your head saying, you're a bigger shot now, time to do this, time to do that. Doesn't work for me. It's the things that a person does while in that position that turns him or her into a monster, or a jackass, not the position.

Granted, this is a Magical mantle in a fictional world, so Butcher can do whatever he wants, but still. It's like the episode with Lasciel all over again (which I bought; a Fallen Angel talking to you in your head, that's cool), except in the case of the Winter Knight's mantle, it's like Lash turned dumb and you know, started to subvert his mind without telling him; ie. turned Harry cruel and horny by the sole virtue of the fact that he is now the Winter Knight.

(On another side note, I kinda thought the Winter Knight gig would be like an environmentalist being forced by circumstances to become, say, the general manager of a lumbering/coal mining company. He sold out, turned against his principles etc.) Doesn't make him evil. At least to non-environmentalists.

TLDR - I expected the change in Harry due to the Winter mantle to be more of a character and personality shift (by making him do things that he doesn't want to do), rather than direct magical subversion (making him superhorny and easy to anger).

 

I think the Winter mantle turns people towards evilness because so many holders of the mantle have been evil/turned evil in the past. The magic now pushes in that direction (beyond the whole magic corrupts thing). I'd imagine that, after a lifetime with a successfully resisting Harry Dresden, the next Winter Knight would have a slightly easier time staying nice.

One random thing about Cold Days: because she was being so annoying at the time, I actually didn't feel bad at all about Lily's death, despite her past status as a friend to Harry. Not sure if that was deliberate on Butcher's part or not, but I actually gave a little cheer when Lily got it.

 

I don't think that she was ever a sympathetic character. She was described as a stupid bimbo, then she gained power, then she used that power to manipulate one of the only people that had ever helped her, and finally she tried to kill him. And of course—despite all the years, intrigue, and power—she remained a stupid bimbo to the end.

 

It mentioned Dark Gods, Nameless Things, Unspeakable Horrors etc. etc. and personally the way I see it when Naagloshi are considered complete pussies compared to the rest of the inmates and something like Demonreach starts tossing around phrases like Nameless Things whatever the hell is down there has to be inconceivably powerful. That leads into my next point of now we're starting to get a grasp on just how powerful the original Merlin really was, unless he tricked them down there or something it seems to be implied to me at least meaning that the original Merlin put them there by force. Anyone else wanting to see him make a return appearance? I'm hoping for something in the Apocalyptic Trilogy where the White Council is fighting in a massive battle and just when it looks like they're about to get their shit kicked in the original Merlin reminds the monsters what a human with magic can really do.

If it really did used to belong to her then I'm damned curious just how the hell they managed to get it away from her. Im pretty sure it was stated that the Council has had the damn thing for a while before Eb so assuming Im remembering correctly if anyone got it away from her it was most likely the original Merlin and given how retardedly strong he was implied to be here Im almost starting to wonder if he managed to take it by force.

Finally as for Mac, Im honestly wondering what the shit he's supposed to be now. The Watcher comment by the Outsider and him mentioning repeatedly that he's out make me think either the Fallen theory I saw on the first couple of pages is pretty close to target or we're looking at a new group we haven't gotten to see much of anything of yet.

 

I'm with Jon on this one. The Winter Mantle has nothing to do with Good/Evil. It's simply the basest instincts given a voice. The closest it comes to being evil is simply that it emphasizes things we would call negative impulses in modern society.

That said, I've gotta agree with Larken. The fact that the mantle, on its own, is psychologically warping is... disappointing. I was hoping for far more of a character struggle rather than a metaphysical one, if that makes any sense. It seemed to be going that way, what with the whole "You decide who you are" schtick in Ghost Story, then Butcher turns around and says "nope, this magic can decide who you are".

It was more than a bit annoying.

 

I agree, base instincts =! evil, and like I said, Winter is more a force of nature rather than evilness.

Granted, what Dresden fears is that he'd become someone who doesn't uphold his own personal scale of good and evil. My point is, base instincts are always there. A magically enhanced base instincts pushing him towards animalistic urges serves no purpose except implying that deep down inside all human beings, we are inherently sadistic, power hungry and horny buggers. (I'm not saying we're not, but surely, there is a possibility that that people could be inherently good.)

It's a little revealing of the author's view on humanity as a whole (once again, I'm not disagreeing), but Agayek put it nicely. I'd much rather have a character struggle. The power inherent in the Winter Knight's mantle, the temptation of beautiful Sidhe offering to sleep with him, would be enough to warp most people's personalities.

Power and circumstances corrupts enough by itself, and not to mention that Harry is more or less bound to the will of Mab. He could try to refuse doing many things, and have no choice for some of them, and those actions will go back to haunt him, which could spark the change in character into the 'monster'. It is widely accepted that killing someone has a huge effect on a person's mind. Harry has done that, several times, and it's been haunting him. Over the years he had became grouchy, easy to anger and much less adverse to killing to save those he hold dear. That in itself was a loss of innocence, and the whole segment with Lasciel was really well done - i.e. She never did jedi-mind trick him into doing something he didn't want to. She just kept offering solutions to his problems, and he was the one to make the final choice. That was superb.

Here's a thought. What if a man like Michael Carpenter was made the Winter Knight? I have a hard time imagining how it would go, given how rock solid Michael is as a man, except where his family is concerned.

Imo, the story would be much better served if Harry's character changes were due to hard decisions he had to make during his tenure as Winter Knight. Like killing of innocents on Mab's command.

The magical psychological warp was a push that wasn't needed.

 

Michael would refuse to do everything. And be tortured to madness for it. He is not a malleable person. There's no bending, only breaking when it comes to his morals.

 

Finally got the fucking book.

Harry and a million other people. Also, Elaine wasn't born on the same day, IIRC. So probably not.

Since the Ladies and their mooks could stalemate Demonreach? Probably not.

Unless Mother Winter is secretly a male, then no. Merlin stole the staff from a guy (and he wants it back).

And accomplish what? Let's think about it, really--He pulls that trigger and...Mab kills him and holds of Demonreach at least long enough to escape, because she's way more powerful then the Ladies and their mooks combined.

And that's the best possibility, because if it somehow hits her and kills her, then the Universe dies, because Molly is jack all prepared to defend it. Also the balance in the Supernal World shatters and things get even worse, because the new Queen has no idea how to use her power.

End result, life on Earth ends, good game, thanks for playing.

No; Jim covered this. Getting the Winter Mantle makes the choice for you (even if you're not a Changeling). End result: Molly's, like Lily's before her, soul fell off without her getting a vote.

Actually, yes. That's exactly what happened. Life sucks that way sometimes.

Unlikely:

For one, the Fallen are in solitary confinement already, since Lucifer put them there.

For two, even normal Angels are hilariously above anything else we've seen, with Jim giving them planet destroying power. The Denarians are the thirty elite Angels that Lucy did not want to betray him, and Jim has given Archangels casual galaxy destruction. End result--Demonreach is bad, but not that bad.

Yes, because it's not like if Murphy hadn't shot Meave, Harry would have died or anything.

Wait.