Translation: I gots no arguements to that. RAGE, WHINE, INSULT.

 

Eh. Since, in this Military Organization, the ranks are based almost entirely on power and skill (with emotional/mental maturity thrown in at the earlier ranks) it's not really so egregious here.

@vincent: There's no reason to bother arguing with you on any sort of intellectual level. Your desperate need for All Things Sasuke blinds you to the truth. I tried it, once, and all you did was show that you get a massive hard on any time anyone gives you a chance to prove your endless love for the Uchiha Prodigy of Faggotry. Some day, you'll realize being an emo dickweed isn't the height of what to aspire to in life, and then you'll be worth actually conversing with. Until then, this is what you get.

 

Amusing that you say that only after proving that you don't have any intellectual arguments. When I mentioned Sasuke's top tier stats you counter by comparing him to Naruto, Madara, Kakashi, and Guy. You also love your strawmans arguments because that's what you constantly use as I've been objective from the start.

My argument was never that Sasuke is the same strength without his doujutsu. It was that he'd still be Kage level. Decreased from the God Tier that he's at now with Naruto. Half the Kage level shinobi in the series wouldn't survive this. http://www.mangapanda.com/naruto/674/17

 

Not when it has long since been clear that rank is in fact only granted based on one's effectiveness as a warrior.

Stupid? Yes, but it is the classification system used.


@WalkingDisaster - You completely ignored the content of what he said. Yes, Sasuke without his super duper eyeballs would be utterly raped by any of those shinobi, but he would still shit on your average ninja - in the same way that Gai without the Gates technically isn't top tier, but could slap the shit out of fodder ninja all day long even without them.

 

Jesus Christ guys, can you stop having a dick-waving contest on which fictional character is better? especially when we know that Kishimoto made the Sharigan and any of Sasuke's other abilities hilariously overpowered to maintain him as Naruto's rival.

But seriously, if anyone had a newish Naruto fic that they consider good and would like to recommend, that'd be cool.

 

......

Irrational hatred of Sasuke from Walking Disaster? Nothing new. Vincent's statements -are- factual. Please remember that Sasuke was considered a genius/rookie of the year without using the sharingan. Gaining the sharingan just upped his already ridiculous learning curve.

Would he be a different fighter without the Sharingan? Certainly. Would he be as strong as he is with? Probably not. I'd still place him on above Zabuza level capable of going toe to toe with Tsunade.

Sasuke is ridiculously fast, mastered fire and lightning (one more element that naruto it should be noted), has hawk summoning jutsus, etc...

Sasuke's sharingan is what puts him on Upper-Kage levels (Naruto, Madara, etc). He would still do well against people like Kakashi, Tsunade or what not.

Same if you took away Jinchuuriki abilities from Naruto really.

 

It's entirely stupid. Sarutobi would bend Yagura (or Gaara's dad, don't remember his name) over his knee while smoking a blunt with Enma.

I preferred the old days, where there was a letter grade system. That one makes sense, even if they're inevitably ruined by ranking people too high prompting stupid 'SSSS rank' or whatever.

 

Eh, that's a fair point, minus the 'entirely stupid' bit.

The letter ranking system is useful, but it also tends to correllate to the military ranking. D, and some C rank threats are Genin (normally, Jinchuuriki do not apply), High C to low B rank threats are Chuunin, and high B to S rank threats are Jounin. With Kage allowing only S-rank threats and Special Jounin generally being mid-B rank threats, as far as I understand.

It's a lazier way of explaining things, yes, but it's not entirely inaccurate, either. In general, a Chuunin isn't going to be able to match a Jounin, and most Jounin aren't going to be able to match a Kage. Unless you're one of the few (Kakashi, Gai, etc) who have that potential to reach S-Rank.

Of course, these are generalities, so there are exceptions (See: Jinchuuriki, whose threat-level isn't always really THEIR threat level so much as it is the Demon's). Or Shinobi like Mizuki who are held back from rank because they aren't trusted with the authority of a higher one.

 

Entirely irrelevant, then. I was referencing more the gulf in quality between weakest and strongest 'kage'.

 

Oh, well, there's nothing to be done about that. The rank doesn't go higher than 'S', which Japan has a thing for using as the most powerful rank across all sorts of games and shows and other forms of Media.

Once you reach S-rank, you're Kage-level, even if not a Kage yourself, and if you're a Kage, you're S-rank, because no-one else can even bother trying. So the two are basically interchangeable at that point and there's no way to really measure the power difference in rankings between them, canonically.

 

That's a clear anti-Sasuke jihad going on and also unfunded insulting of your co-forist (I hope, that the word "co-forist" does sound OK in English). Sasuke without the Deus ex Sharingan would be still a damn powerful ninja (to be clear, I think, that Sasuke was a braindamaged, fanatic asshole, who should've been put down for good earlier in the series. They probably didn't hang him on the next lantern after the war, cause they wanted him to start popping out sharingan-babies with Pinky, how else did he get away with betraying Konoha and trying to help some crazy motherfucker to destroy the world?!).

Take that up with Kishimoto!

 

First of all I do agree that Sasuke was a brain-damaged fanatic asshole. That said...aside from killing Danzou and fighting Killer Bee (who wasn't even harmed anyway) Sasuke contributed more to the war against Madara than against. Also, it wasn't like he was trying to destroy the world..just Konoha. Which I would say he had a legitimate cause.

If your nation segregated your family from the rest of the population and blamed things on them...then massacred them all when they tried to fight back I imagine you would have some pretty hard feelings against your nation as well.

 

Which was one of the reasons, why I stopped reading Naruto.

 

Killing Danzo probably helped the war effort. Kakashi/Tsunade and the rest of the Jounin likely would have tried arresting him or something. Danzo probably wouldn't have gone down quietly. The resulting battle would have weakened Konoha.

 

Whatever Danzo was I don't think he would have done anything to weaken Konoha. He would have probably allowed himself to be arrested and had an agent help him escape.

 

He wouldn't have done anything to intentionally weaken Konoha. He'd use his mental gymnastics to convince himself that what he's doing is for the best. Really half the things he's done have turned out badly for Konoha.

 

Starting a battle in the middle of Konoha is deliberately weakening Konoha. I don't deny that he unintentionally weakened it. Also remember that the Third sanctioned his actions.

 

Remember that for the majority of the series Sasuke had no idea that Konoha was behind the massacre. You can ascribe as much justification to his actions as you want when hindsight is involved, but that doesn't change the fact that he betrayed his home, tried to kill his best friend (who would have died if not for the Kyuubi) and turned to the single greatest threat to Konoha for power. All because he wanted to kill his brother.

The word you use to describe such a person is 'traitor', the adjective, 'treasonous'. If this wasn't a shounen story then Sasuke would never have been allowed near Konoha after defecting, Sharingan or not.

 

I think Hiruzen sanctioned him to act, not sanctioned his actions. The difference being that Hiruzen didn't approve his actions individually and probably didn't know what he was doing for the most part. He just knew that Danzo was doing something and let him.

Some would argue that sitting on your hands while an invasion is going on is intentionally weakening Konoha.

 

Danzo was prepping for taking Tsunade's place. I'm not saying that he didn't weaken Konoha just that he believed he was making it stronger. Which is not what you said at the beginning. You said you thought he would start a battle in the middle of Konoha. However I do acknowledge that you mentioned it in succeeding posts.
As for Hiruzen. It was his responsibility as a leader to look into Danzo's actions. By not doing that he went from sanctioning him to act in defense of the village to grossly neglecting his duty as a leader. Which I would say is on the same level as sanctioning his actions.