I don't even need Naruto as MC, but if I read fanfiction it's sure as hell not going to be for an SI. You have a whole bunch of underutilized interesting characters in the setting, and you insert yourself as an OC for the story to be about instead? No thanks.

I don't have a problem with people writing stuff for wish fulfillment, but it doesn't mean I'm going to bother reading it.

 

Amen to that.

 

I don't mind self-inserts, as long as it is written well enough and I'm able to like the SI.

SI likability, character development, world building, and how the SI reacts to the world, are pretty much the key things required for a good self-insert story. Even then though, SI stories are a tricky thing to tackle. The last thing you want to have is a self-insert Mary-Sue 'fix-it' fic.

Dreaming of Sunshine was the best of them, but I find myself losing interest in it at the moment with the current chapters focusing on the movies and fillers between the time-skip.

Vapors was really good, but Clarity has been a massive step down. Focusing so much of the story on Obito was a mistake I hope the story can recover from.

I don't read a fic about an OC self-insert and expect to have Naruto as the main character, so I don't really care how big a role he has in these kinds of stories.

 

Isn't that basically the plot of The Empty Cage?

 

Basically I was kind of hoping someone knew of an obscure fic that I hadn't already come across already. And yes that is the plot.

 

I thought I had said everything I wanted to on the topic, but this post just needed to be replied to. So I apologize to everyone here for dragging this.

The problem with Vapors isn't the quality of writing. It doesn't appeal to me but that's just me. The problem occurs when the SI starts influencing CANON events more than the MAIN character. Like I said in an earlier post she remains superior to Naruto throughout the story and judging by what people are saying about Clarity that isn't likely to change.
That my friend is Mary-Sue-ish
You might argue that it is done well, but it doesn't change the fact about what it is.
An OC should NEVER overshadow the Main character when it comes to CANON events even when the story is based on an OC.
Please note that I'm not talking about changing canon events.

 

Look, even I have to disagree with you on this one. A story follows its own MC. Fanfiction is set in a certain universe, but each fanfic decides its own protagonist. Any power level can be reached, so long as it is done believably, at least in theory.

Of course, there are limits and conditions to this. Undoubtedly, people will get incensed when a character who was secondary in canon but is MC in a fanfic becomes naturally stronger than the original protagonist.

The feeling gets ten times worse when it's an OC or an SI, because then it's not just the feeling that a secondary character is getting more attention than he deserves/stealing the protagonist's attention, but it directly takes attention and transfers it to the author. An OC protagonist will undoubtedly be viewed as a self-insert, and people (and me, definitely) view this as wish-fulfillment and to make the character stronger than the original MC or to give the character the original MC's accomplishments seems absurdly arrogant and self-serving. In particularly bad cases, it can be described as a masturbatory fantasy, otherwise known as wank-fest.

Now, I'm not saying this fic is taking it to that extreme, but some level of this cannot be avoided by virtue of being an SI. The concept itself is self-serving to the author, which I find despicable.

From what I've read on this thread, it isn't really that far off on the other end of the scale, either.

 

I agree with you. I don't mind powerful OCs. Hell I use OCs in my stories. The only thing I mind is when OCs become more important than the MC in canon settings.

 

@ Vapors:

Its... okay. Frankly I kept up with it because it was fairly well written story that was technically competent and if you read it while it was updating, Aiko's "power level" didnt seem too contrived.

Now that its finished I cant say.

I lost all interest when the story, instead of finishing, opted to punt for a sequel with the all too common "LOOK SHE HAS AMNESIA! INSTANT STORY!" trope.

 

I think the only SI fic I have ever enjoyed reading was Tigerclaws Sleeping with the Girls. In which he finds himself reality hopping every time he falls asleep, and ends up in the bed of one of his favorite anime girls to which they are not amused to find some random smuk sleeping near them, and when such girls are Ayeka and Shampoo it tends to be more then a bit dangerous.

 

Yo if I wanted to read a story ABOUT some bullshit OC I would go read an actual fucking book.

Anyway, anyone know if https://m.fanfiction.net/s/9440743/1/Ambition-of-the-Uzumaki-Clan Is any good?

 

I think you're talking across crimson sun06's point. Nowhere is he saying it's not okay for an OC-SI to be made the main character or to even to outshine a canon main character -- what he's saying is that when something happens like in canon it shouldn't be the OC-SI taking over the role that already had been the main character's.

Think about it like this: I create an OC-SI named Ryu (because my SI would obviously have to be named "Dragon"). Ryu becomes the hero of Wave and the bridge is named "The Great Ryu Bridge." Ryu then stops Gaara from destroying Konoha in Ichibi form while Naruto does fuck all to help. Ryu brings Tsunade back to Konoha. Ryu prevents Sasuke from defecting.

Would you be okay with that? Really? Even if it was well written and all made sense in story?

I am NOT arguing that Vapors is that bad. Do not misunderstand. I have not read Vapors. I am using an extreme example to make a point and that point is this: it is okay to make an OC-SI the main character and even to have them outshine the canon character's, but many fans of the series such as myself will be offended if it comes at the cost of the main character's and their accomplishments.

Why do Wave arc only to take away from what Naruto gained from it? Why repeat the chuunin exams more or less the same way only to shove Naruto off to the side? Why have a Recover Tsunade arc if Naruto isn't forming a bond there with Tsunade?

Again, I'm not saying Vapors is that bad -- again I reiterate that I have not read it and my argument is being made in the abstract -- but it's the cardinal sin of a Mary Sue character to take away from a canon character in an otherwise canon situation. The. Cardinal. Sin.

Influencing events to help canon characters achieve the same or better results is fine and accidentally making things worse is laudable. But there's a gray area where you start stripping away from canon without giving anything back to it.

 

Thank you mortalone for putting across my point more eloquently than I did. Good job.

 

As interesting as this debate is, I still think that judging a fic before reading is the height of stupidity, but this is definitely falling into agree to disagree territory.

OC/SI stories don't bother me because I don't really care about the author or their intentions going into the fic. I care about the story because it's the only thing I interact with. It could be wish fulfillment of the highest order on the author's part, but as long as it's believably written and as strong character development I couldn't care less.

Others obviously think differently, but there you have it. If you can't get past the fact that this is an SI story then it's probably not for you, but if that doesn't bother you then you should give it a go, because it's a good story with an interesting main character.

Spoiler

I will agree on the amnesia plot, however. I wasn't much a fan of that beyond how the author used it to flesh out the remaining Akatsuki characters. Kakuzu was awesome.

 

Actually I read the fic and then judged it. And once again it isn't the fact that it is an SI that bothers me but the fact that the SI by accident or design does a very good job of emasculating the canon MC.

 

Sorry, should have been clearer. That part was directed at mortalone.

 

Well to be fair to him he avoided commenting on the story and stuck to the premise of the tale which has been the topic of discussion.

 

Is there any Naruto/Exalted xover that is readable?

 

I did not pass judgment on the story. I explained what the big deal is with OC-SI's out shining canon characters. The argument that it's okay because the OC-SI is the main character of the fanfic falls flat when canon scenes are rewritten in a way that detracts from the main characters. At least replace the scenes to preserve the dignity of the characters. I do in fact have two or three OC-SI stories that I'm actively following, but in all cases the main character's accomplishments are never diminished even if sometimes they occur off screen.

If Vapors weren't so long I might give it a go regardless. Alas, 700k words would take days to slog through so I require a very high standard of quality before diving in. If it's the height of stupidity to hold that opinion then I'd rather be stupid and use my time in ways I know I'd enjoy.

 

Meh, your loss.