Lol what?

/10char

 

There is one H/Hr that I actually liked. It's Duel for the Elder Wand. Although, it's been years since I read it, so I'm not sure how it has aged.

 

Google Ginny Mary Sue, I'm sure many other people say it better than I can.

EDIT: She was just characterised really, really poorly, then got stuck with the hero. It made me mad.

 

Cho's supposed to be hot too -- although the only word we have on the subject is Harry's.

Ginny could have used a better suited actor in the movies. Bonnie Wright wasn't bad, but she wasn't very good either.

Was Fleur really very good? Sure, she was TWT champion, but we have no idea what qualities the Goblet looks for in a champion. In the tournament itself, she ended last despite having the full support of her headmistress. She couldn't fight off the Grindylows in the second task, and couldn't fight an impeurised Krum in the third. Whatever else she might be good at, she was a mediocre dueler at best. And what do you mean by powerful anyway?

The major reason people like Fleur is because she is more or less a sex symbol for young adult males. That is hardly something that needs to be puzzled out at length. I wonder what the (straight) females at DLP think about her.

Ghosthree3 :

Mary Sue is a term that applies exclusively to fanfiction. By definition, Ginny cannot be a Mary Sue. Such stupidity makes my head hurt.

If you do apply the term 'Mary Sue' to the actual series, then Hermione will the most appropriate character. JKR has stated several times that Hermione is pretty much her author insert.

 

I disagree, Mary Sue can be used in original fiction, but Ginny wasn't one.

An example of canon Mary Sue would be Superman or Bella from Twilight.

 

Pet Peeve:

When someone uses "a head" instead of "ahead."

Pet Peeve (Double Down version):

When I'm re-reading my own *&#@ fic to make sure I haven't left major strings undone, and find out I used "a head" instead of "ahead."

 

Perhaps the term was created for FF, doesn't mean the definition can't apply to canon content. Would it make you happier if I instead said she was made too perfect?

Would be true if she didn't have several flaws, eg. she's not exceptionally pretty - in the books.

A Mary Sue doesn't have to be a self insert.

 

By that logic you could say Krum wasn't powerful either, since he got imperiused in the first place, which Harry could throw off. Keep in mind that Fleur was able to enchant the Dragon to sleep, and Dragons are supposedly highly resistive to magic.

The fact that she was among the champions to come to Hogwarts itself points to the fact that she must have been better than average. Also, while we don't know what the Goblet looks for in a champion, but I don't think it's unrealistic to assume that being powerful is one of them.

In any case, I'm not saying that Fleur is the most powerful witch in the world, but given what we know, I think it's clear that she was powerful.

I agree that her being a sex symbol is the major reason for everyone liking her. I'm just saying that there are reasons that make her more appealing than any other possible sex symbol in the HP world.

 

Except Ginny doesn't appear nearly enough in the series to keep a list of her strengths and flaws. She isn't involved in the main conflict at all, so very few of her actions affect the story. Her presence is not toxic to the narrative in any way at all.

Are other characters like Bill, Cedric, Shacklebolt, Charlie, Tonks etc also Mary Sues? None of them have outlined flaws either. Neville in DH was seemingly flawless as well.

In any case, your statement of Ginny not having any flaws is ridiculous anyway. She was a naive young girl with delusions of a fairy tale like world before she forced to grow up, in part by her body being used as a vessel for Lord Voldemort to commit murder in her school. Yes, perfectly invincible character here.

Admit it, you're butthurt you didn't get the pairing you wanted in canon. Just keep reading bad Hermione glorification fanfics and don't make ridiculous statements to support you view point.

---------- Post automerged at 01:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:16 AM ----------

You didn't answer my question -- what do you mean by powerful? Do you mean skilled? Harry was skilled in using the Patronus charm, but he wasn't very good at non-verbal magic. It was the opposite for Hermione. They are skilled in different areas.

Fleur wasn't very good at dueling in canon. Her performance in the tasks is proof of this -- she couldn't beat the Grindylows whom Harry beat quite easily. She was probably skilled in other areas of magic since she was chosen as champion, but a good dueler she was not.

 

Gotta disagree.

She was ineffective, whiny, emotionally unstable, and could barely stand on her own two feet without hurting herself. The idea of Bella being a Mary Sue is pretty silly, especially when you have both Alice and the "mother" vampire as both absolutely beautiful AND failing to make a single mistake in all four books. If you want canon Mary Sues, those two are a much better fit.

 

The problem was more so that Ginny was thrown at us with all her brilliance near the end of the series with the sole purpose of convincing us she's a good match for Harry. At least, that's how I see it, I see no other reason for her to be so great in every way apart from that. Perhaps I'm seeing what I want to see, perhaps not. It just feels like last second panic from JKR to set up a good end pairing.

It's not like she had any other purpose, every other character you listed does. Bill needs to be great to be a curse breaker, Cedric needs to be great because he was selected champion, Shacklebolt and Tonks are aurors, Charlie works with dragons etc. Ginny does what? Why does she need to be brilliant? Oh right, to be paired with Harry.

Cherry picking only a few situations and ignoring the rest? Now you're just grasping at straws.

I'm not going to argue with a wall so let's end it now, I won't respond again.

I already said that I was upset I didn't get the pairing I wanted so I don't know what more you want. You can ignore how shitty her character was all you want I don't care, I have what I believe are justified reasons for disliking her Ginny's character and frankly I don't need to convince you of any of them to be happy.

God forbid someone have a different opinion of the canon bible to you.

 

Because everything Ginny did in CoS will define her for the rest of her life

At the very least, Bella was a Myer self-insert.

 

Ginny was..... brilliant? Great in every way? Did she win a huge number of academic awards I never heard about? Did she perform some never-heard-before magical feat that only you know of? I'm honestly confused here.

(Even if that were true, if Cedric could be brilliant for the sole purpose of being champion, why can't Ginny be brilliant for the sole purpose of being with Harry?)

Ginny's only canon mentioned strengths were her good looks and her skills in quidditch. Anything else is your imagination.

(Infact, Ginny wasn't even made prefect, so she probably wasn't very good at academics. She was a better-than-average dueler though.)

In any case, you put way too much importance to 'to be paired with Harry'. It wasn't of nearly as much importance in canon -- the story was about Harry beating Voldemort, something Ginny played no part in. Everything else was secondary. Ginny got enough character development to justify her importance in canon events.

Except you made the statement of Ginny being a 'Mary Sue'. You cannot write statements that are controversial at best (in the same way 'Dumbledore is evil and must die' is controversial) and not expect anyone to react. I don't give a fuck if you like Ginny or not -- I'm not exactly Hermione's biggest fan either (although I don't hate her), but I'm not going to make ridiculous 'facts' to justify my distaste.

 

I mean ability. To an extent skill, but more specifically the ability to cast incredibly hard magic, like the Patronus charm for Harry, or the ability to put a dragon to sleep for Fleur.

We don't know that Fleur wasn't good at dueling in canon. The only thing we do know is that either Krum, or Barty (presuming he cast the imperius) were better than her. Considering Krum was another powerful wizard, and casting an unforgivable, I don't think it's a good indicator of Fleur being bad at it. If she had lost to an average wizard, that would have been an indicator of her not being good.

 

You do realize that:

was about Bella, right?

Ginny, I thought, was decently written. Sure, she didn't get the "Screen Time" that some people want, but the story wasn't about her. And from what we see in Ginny's 4th - 6th years, she's actually pretty effective, not whiny, and stable (both emotionally and physically). She seemed a little reserved emotionally, however, but that stays well within character of someone who went through what she did in CoS.

As for Bella, I'm not sure she was a self-insert either. The character actually was a character out of a dream she had, and she developed Bella from that, and the interaction between her and the male in the dream. So, to a point, sure she's a self-insert,

Honestly, I think all main characters have to be a self-insert to some degree, or they won't be believable. It's the, "Could I see myself doing this in this situation?" conundrum. If the answer is yes, and you write it that way, then it's pretty easy to slip into inserting your personality/reactions into the character. If not, you run the risk of removing the suspension of disbelief because everyone's crying out, "That's just not realistic."

 

My mistake.

Yes, Bella was "ineffective, whiny, emotionally unstable, and could barely stand on her own two feet without hurting herself" and everyone loved and fawned over her regardless. That makes her a Sue.

 

Not to mention that her superpower slapped the Volturis' best baddies with a metaphorical cock.

(Yes I read fucking Twilight. I have a younger sister.)

 

That's exactly how I defend myself.

 

Pet Peeve:

Stories where Wormtail is captured/killed before the events of the Shrieking Shack and despite that, Voldemort is given a proto-body and fully resurrected regardless because some other Deatheater decided to search and find Voldemort on exactly the same timescale.

 

I also dislike it when that happens, both for that reason and that they are also accompanied with an early exonerated Sirius which honestly never seems to serve any purpose. He just gets freed so the author can be like "yeah, I totally freed Sirius".