I know I am. At least, I love to hate Ramsay. And he didn't give a fucking amazing speech about how much he loves his daughter before burning her alive.

Is it wrong that I expected and kinda hoped that Arya wouldn't be "too young" for him and that she'd get an occasion to give him vinegar? Also, a bit doubtful that a girl learnt to lie well enough for the "he wasn't hungry" to work.

I'm a bit afraid of what they're going to do to Davos, because if he comes back with the wildlings and food, I don't think that even him would forgive Stannis and the Red Bitch.

Well, now I'm waiting for whatever shit they've kept for the last episode. There are so many things that can go so very wrong.

 

If something doesn't get majorly fucked up, then the entire season was for nothing. There were bits I liked, but overall it's a huge disappointment so far.

 

I think it's fair to say that

Spoiler

Potato Lad stabs Jon in the back in the last episode. I'd go so far as to even say that's gonna be the last scene of the 10th episode, Jon getting stabbed and then lying in the snow, bleeding out.

 

Spoiler

Did you think that the last scene would be anything else?

 

Well, it could have been

Spoiler

Cersei's walk of shame through King's Landing, shaved and naked. But that's probably just going to be somewhere in between the scenes of the 10th episode, rather than the one upon which it ends.

 

Spoiler

Nah I think this was how it was always going to be. They'll even make it kinda similar to Robb ends up dying (reaction and facials I mean) just to give it a bigger impact I imagine.

I'm really looking forward to the inevitable Old God resurrection though. Theon getting gutted before a heart tree will be great. Still looks like it might be Stannis in the show.

 

I don't think she did. That lingering stare was clearly meant as an "A man is on to a girl's bullshit."

 

I probably looked a bit weird standing up at my desk with only my underwear on and cursing Stannis to hell, but I digress. I hope Ramsey gets a hold of him and the red priestess.

 

My predictions for the next book about Shireen:

Spoiler

Right around the time Jon is killed, Melisandre will see snow and blood in a vision and believe Stannis is endangered. She will sacrifice Shireen in the belief it will save/revive Stannis. Perhaps Shireen will even go willingly to save her father and the fact she is already dying. However, Melisandre saw the wrong person and ends up reviving Jon. Stannis was never hurt at all, just stuck in the snow. This makes Jon feel like utter shit as he was just revived by having another child burned.

Next episode/season predictions:

Spoiler

Stannis will reach Winterfell. Brienne has to make the decision to save Sansa or kill Stannis. She will end up saving Sansa and Theon and they will all escape to Stannis. Stannis will win Winterfell and begin to use it as a stronghold with Sansa as its head. Davos will return, find Shireen dead and not be able to serve Stannis anymore. Instead Sansa finds him and asks him to go find her brothers.

Arya part will be merged between Cat of the Canals and Mercy (TWOW), where she will act as a young whore to kill her dudes. She will succeed in killing both, but will become blind as punishment for disobeying ("You are acting as Arya Stark").

Ceresi, the walk of Shame.

Dany will disappear like in the books while her city goes into chaos. Greyscale beginning to break out.

Jon will be stabbed and we will see him warg into Ghost as the final scene.

I do have a feeling some of the first scenes we will see next season is the Greyjoys. I think they are going to merge a few things and we will see a fleet go to rescue Dany like in canon.

 

Can't say I'm not disappointed with how the show is going.

At this point, I want the Others to win.

 

I find it to be pretty cheap and pathetic to highlight the relationship between Stannis and Shireen like that, and in general showing how cute and awesome Shireen is in order to make her senseless death more shocking.

 

Game of Thrones Shireen death: Showrunners explain why Stannis Baratheon had to sacrifice his daughter in season 5 episode 9

Are they seriously trying to imply people didn't tell them they were shitting on Stannis character with all that? Are they seriously that retarded that they can't even remember the past few episodes that have aired, one where Stannis explicitly told Melisandre it would never happen, that he would not allow it and told her to get out, and the second where he had an extremely emotional (for Stannis' character) scene where he expresses how much he loves her and cares for her?

They can't be this fucking stupid.

Except... they're even worse.

They literally kill her, and do it this way around, because the fans will give a shit. That's it, that's apparently all there is to their reasoning, cretins that they are. Same excuse they had for Barristan's death. Lovely.

 

Breathe, Odran. Deep, calming breaths.

Anyway, I'm really not that surprised there wasn't much depth to it. The writers are seeming a bit lost without GRRM's writing to guide character fates.

It's only going to get worse if Winds doesn't come out within the year.

 

[IMGUR]Yqyde5J.gif[/IMGUR]

 

Just yesterday I bitched to Odran about his viciouness and annoying rants, but this time, this time I completely agree with him.

You see, I understood when they chose to make Sansa Ramsay’s victim instead of a nearly no name character, and I can even understand why they chose Shireen. But even though what they did to Sansa was almost reverting years of hard earned development and victimise her (awful I know, but all is not completely lost and we see glimmers of New Sansa, and she can always be allowed to become the badass she shaping up to be), what they to Stannis was much worse.

They jumped of a cliff, they destroyed my favorite character in his entirity* because they were lazy and incompetent. They destroyed not only the Mannis, the hyped badass, they also destroyed Stannis, the struggling cinycal, cold, dry and yet always doing the just thing (to him, as much as possible anyway) man.

Stannis fascinated me, one of my other favorite characters is Dr. Doom, who when written right, I easily associate with Stannis. Their iron wills, their great competency and yet how misused it was/is, their confidence and strict adherence to their own codes fascinates me. Also, an unending willpower is something that I love. More than anything. Churchill speeches are one of my favorite works, as is Invictus.

Stannis refusing to lose himself despite everything, his determination to cling to what he believe is his duty even when doomed. A man that all for his utter lack of social skills or displaying emotions, has a soft spot for those who do him right, that listen to advises and knows he is not always right, but never wavers when it matters, who won’t hold the idiot ball but recognises when he has it and drop it as quick as possible. A man I can respect despite all his many many flaws and lack of natural charisma.

They killed that man, and made him just a plot device to be used, I disagree with Gio, even with the hints it was hardly the expected conclusuon of his story, just the cheapest.

 

Honestly, just stop caring. Join my side, where you vicariously marvel at the train wreck with utter fascination.

 

I wonder about that. Stannis, as pointed out, has been burning people since season 1. He's see Melisandre's powers, and he knows the position him and his army are in.

As he explains to Shireen, sometimes one must grasp his destiny and do everything in his power to become who he is meant to be. This leads, yes, to Shireen's sacrifice, and it doesn't mean Stannis suddenly doesn't love his daughter. It highlights his dedication to achieving his goal and how this bullheadedness to see it through surpasses even his love of his daughter.

To him, it appears as if the only way to escape annihilation is to sacrifice Shireen. The choice is simple, though not easy.

All of those are in character. You just didn't like it because it highlighted the ugly side of Stannis' determination, that he would literally sacrifice anything in the altar of his goals.

You call it 'retarded' because it does to Stannis what it has done to almost every other GoT character, dispell the 'black and white' illusion in a much clearer way that him burning non-names or hanging his own soldiers.

 

If you think Stannis motivation was power you really misread him or just saw the series. Stannis did not want the throne, he knew it was his, and he owed it to Robert, to Shireen and the Kingdom, that almost exactly what he said.

In one of the special extra Stannis explicit tells that although it was an extremely hard decision he chose to side with his brother over his liege, bceause 'blood runs deep, older than allegiances". He sees his duty to his family as one of the, if not the most, important ones, Stannis was never about power, or else he would have plotted, made amends or just cheated his way out.

Another thing, he doesn't believe in Gods, he is an atheist and extremily cynical, he explicitily tell us so when remembering his parents death. He just went along with Melisandre because she prove that she was useful and powerful while seving him, note that the serving power is fundamental. No matter what anyone says, Stannis has the final word.

Yeah, because casual burning and murdering his brother and a man doing his duty where something of a Chivalry romance. Tell me, if Jon stabbed Sam because he was slowing them down, and because he NEEDED to be somewhere and he really believed they wouldn't make it like that, would you call that in character and a fair decision?

 

"rescue"...

 

A few quick things because I also love Stannis (even if Ramsay Bolton is my favorite character still living since they refused to write Doran Martell any meaningful role so far.)

1) I'm totally okay with Sansa continuing to suffer since, aside from the fact that I loathe her character . . .

1a) Every single bit of character development that Sansa goes through is spurred on by horrific suffering. She simply does not develop if the world behaves as she believes it should. That has been the pattern of the writers from Episode 1 onward and they aren't going to change it. Neither will Martin. Nor should they.

2) When I say it was the expected culmination, I mean that GoT as a series is actually an extremely intricate series of chiastic patterns that cross through multiple character arcs and link everything together across a series of major recurring themes throughout the book. As a result, pretty much every single plot thread in the book or series that involves a POV character (and even some non-POV characters) must get wound up. It it doesn't, then the structure of the story falls apart. Stannis and Tywin are the two sides of a chiastic structure so once Tyrion killed Tywin at the end of Season IV, any lingering doubts I had about the vision in the flames went away.

Sidenote, the chiastic structure issue is largely why the Jaime and Bronn to Dorne/Cersei condensation in King's Landing/Dorne (everything) ended up as shitty as it did this season. The actors were flailing around with bad lines written by writers who had one too many unanticipated ripples. It leaves us with issues, like "who controls Riverrun right now?" and "Where is The Blackfish" not to mention . . . well, pretty much everything to do with Dorne and the utter lack of Greyjoys so far.

So after this scene in Season II, we can be reasonably certain about Stannis' future trajectory as a character. So, while Stannis is absolutely a practical non-believer who sees things based on their utility, he's also had a vision in the flames of his doing exactly this. So . . .

3) The failing of the writers here, was really a failing they've had with every single subplot this season: They really should have split this season into two seasons in order to allow for better development of their story lines. As a result, we'd have seen a protracted struggle within Stannis over what he was to do with Shireen instead of a few brief scenes and a feeling of well, that escalated quickly.

EDIT: I like Scrib's discussion of why perception of Stannis-as-nice-guy misses a few rather crucial aspects of the story.