Or it could be that he doesn't come back until season 7.

 

Jon is one of our main POVs that ties into the so-called "main story." His character arc is also set up in such a way that he plays a key role in the "main story" - hence the endless speculation about R+L=J, AA/PWP, him along with Stannis, Bran, and Melisandre being one of the few main characters taking the threat of the Others seriously, etc. Jon I think has the second-most POV chapters in the entirety of ASOIAF and his development into one of the key players in the fight against the Others has been building over five books.

That's not to rule out something like Celestin's suggestion that maybe Jon ends up becoming the "villain" or something (for all we know, Jon is the second coming of the Night's King or something!), but the main story has set him up to be a key player in that conflict. If he just dies permanently at the end of Dance, his character arc just fizzles out and his presence in ASOAIF seems pointless.

But, more importantly, given the narrative importance the main story assigns to Jon, losing Jon threatens to undermine the coherence of the main story's narrative, because we are no longer able to actually contextualize the scope of the main story which we have been viewing largely through the eyes of Jon Snow. (By coherence, I simply refer to how all the pieces of the story "fit together.") I suppose GRRM could try foisting off the role Jon might play onto some other character, but that arguably makes the story less coherent. It's not as though GRRM has the time in two books - unless they are utterly massive - to create a completely new character or set of characters to accomplish Jon's place in the narrative, so he'd have to foist it onto someone else. (Let alone characters we would care about) And it's not clear if there are really other characters that could play a similar role to Jon here, let alone whether or not it would even make sense for other POV characters in terms of their own characterization and personal storylines.

In other words, Jon is too deeply entangled with the main storyline as it has been set up for GRRM to simply remove him neatly out of the story without damaging just how the main story is supposed to fit together.

Presumably, GRRM had a goal in mind when he decided to spend so much time on Jon Snow as a POV character, as opposed to some random Night's Watch character, who's character arc consists of waiting around, fighting some wildlings, and then dying ignominiously at the end of the Wildling attack or something. The permanent death of Jon Snow damages the resolution of Jon's character arc, which is just bad writing, and it arguably damages the very plot of ASOIAF. Hope that makes things a little clearer insofar as I see it.

They could go with some kind of "book ends" Season 6 finale, with Jon Snow resurrecting or something like that.

 

So, to change the subject... the Jaime and Myrcella moment. The feels, man. I actually think that scene was the most impressive scene of the episode, and it's unfortunate that it got lost in all the deaths.

Think about this for a moment. Game of Thrones has managed to mess with viewer values to the point that a chat about incest is considered the sweetest, most touching thing in the show so far.

That's amazing writing.

I just really hope she survives... somehow.

 

Even if she lives, she's probably going to die later.

Also, I wonder if there will bee have Darkstar in Season 7. They seemed to give Arianne Martell's role in relation to Myrcella to Ellaria Sand there, so odds maybe there's no Darkstar.

 

Ignoring basic tenents of immunology, because... you know... English Major science... Bronn gives her a transfusion and miraculously saves her life with his "Long Farewell" adapted Bronntibodies!

 

Ned telling Jon when he was leaving for the wall that the next time he saw him, he'd tell him all about his mother.

Melissandre having a clear interest in Jon and wanting to use him in much the same way she used Stannis and Gendry when she was trying to seduce him before Stannis set out for Winterfell.

There have been obvious hints that there's more to Jon than meets the eye in the show.

 

Thoughts on Lena Headey CGI head on body double? Lots of people kicking up a stink about it. You could tell it was CGI--something about the movement seemed off--but I didn't think it was too bad.

For me the bigger problem is that it's Cersei's biggest scene in the entire show and the actress wasn't the one doing it. I can't help but feel that it should be the body double's name on the credits. It was the body double, after all, who had to subject herself to that experience, which had to be horrible, even though it was a performance.

 

The fact that Ned is dead should be enough of a hint that not everything goes how characters think they will.

And that no, he won't be telling Jon anything. Well he might, if they meet up in whatever afterlife Westerosi go to.

 

I think the reader/watcher is going to find out about Jon's parentage via Bran, not Jon, even if Jon is resurrected. So Jon doesn't even need to be resurrected for that storyline to continue.

 

Obviously with Ned being dead he won't in fact be telling Jon anything about his mother but that wasn't my point. My point was there were hints, in the show, that points out there might be something special about Jon's parentage.

 

Yeah, it was kind of a shit move. Granted, D & D do so much stupid nudity at this point their cast must be sick of it, but that was one of her character's pivotal moments, however it got butchered on TV.

 

I never noticed, so it did not bother me at all. I just thought the scene was too long.

Anyways, Lena Headey was pregnant when they filmed this. I believe she was going to do it herself before she realized she was pregnant. She has been naked on film before.

 

Not just that, but apparently they had an issue with filming naked women in public on that location...

 

The moment between Myrcella and Jaime was retarded.

"Oh, I'm so glad you fucked your twin sister, who was married, thus insuring I was a bastard born of incest, and let's completely overlook the fact that you actually barely gave a shit about me throughout all the years, and only now have you paid any attention to me, I just plain love you, because D&D are hacks and they say this is how it should be, aren't you getting all emotional? Oh look, what a convenient time for me to die!"

Die faster, you bint.

 

But also: what a waste casting Alexander Siddig as Doran and then zilch happened in Dorne. I'm pretty disappointed with this season. Only that scene with the White Walkers was really any good. Everything just made me question the writers' and creators' ability to get the job done.

 

Touching on the topic of John Snow and coming back, along with the others we have seen

I always remember a interview GRRM gave where he said he loved LotR but hated that Gandalf came back, not that it wasnt a great thing to have him sacrifice. But that by bringing him back it cheapened it.

So I highly doubt he will be brought back. Unless he never truly dies, but considering the severity of the attack, I can't see anyone surviving.

 

Previously, they took 4 seasons to get through 3 books, this season they took care of two massive books, if I understand correctly. Maybe that's why the season seemed more like a series of bullet points D&D wanted to get out of the way to get the show caught up with the books.

Now Grim has 2 books left to write in the series which, at the rate he's been going, I don't think is going to happen before season 6 and the last book won't come for years after. So D&D will consult Grim on what big stuff should happen and they'll end a season 7.

If my reasoning in correct, then it's no surprise season 5 was much less coherent than the previous ones. D&D had to take a hacksaw to the books and cut off as much fat as they could in order to fit everything into just 10 episodes.

 

Hold on, did I miss something on the show or in discussion on this thread: But what the hell happened to the Tyrells? No further info except for Mace in Bravoos? (I cannot tell you how many times I've had to explain who her is...) No further Margery or Olenna or even Loras? I'm not really disappointed, but the show involves those actors so much...

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There were small hints, but compared to the books, there were far from obvious. Aside from that one scene with Ned, how many times the show mentioned Jon's mother? Without information from the books, most people would probably already forget about it and maybe handful would guess there is something important about it. Mel's fascination with him was more intriguing, but once again it wasn't presented as some sort of mystery that needs to be addressed.

The producer probably tried to be more subtle because they wanted the parentage of Jon to be an unexpected surprise for the viewers of the show, but at the same time, if he's gone for good, nobody can say that there were big, unanswered questions about him.