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Pet Peeves v.10

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Dark Syaoran, Aug 13, 2015.

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  1. Ghosthree3

    Ghosthree3 Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    I think this is why the books never really referred to theory by anything other than name. I think the idea of magical theory is so alien in this case that we can't really explain it. Any fic that does try to always has tie ins with science or follows rules the same way science does. I like to think it's much much different than that because it adds to the magic of it all - ha.

    That's not to say I don't enjoy it when fics do try to explain or expand on the theory, that can be a lot of fun. It's just never going to reach that point where it's as great as it could be if we could understand what we can't understand about it.
     
  2. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Magic isn't science, therefore possible to have multiple sets of equally valid rules despite it not making sense because magic.

    You need to stop thinking "science" and start thinking more "creationism" when it comes to magic - something that defies logic.
     
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    To briefly summarise my headcanon on the matter:

    - Magic is symbolic in nature, with spells being magical manifestations of ideas/concepts and combinations of those concepts existing in certain relations to each other. At its most basic, for example, the shield charm is a magical manifestation of the concept of "protection".

    - To cast a spell you have to have some grasp of the conceptual framework it is a part of. The better your understanding of the concepts involved in the magic, the more powerful/precise the spell.

    - Understanding of the concepts can come from many sources. Reading theory is one way to gain understanding, but experience, intuition, etc can also be a source of understanding. Harry, for example, seems to use an intuitive leap to gain understanding of the nature of wands at the end of DH.

    - Generally magic is a lot more complex than involving a single concept, however. If you only understand the basic concept in a loose sense then your spell will remain basic/weak.

    - Magical theory therefore consists of discourses outlining the nature of concepts, exploring their true meanings, considering their relations to one another, and developing conceptual frameworks that place individual concepts in greater theoretical structures that tell narratives about the nature of the world/magic/people/life. The key diffetence between this and science is that you're inventing, not discovering. Describing, not explsining. Your theory is a useful fiction, a perspective that draws out certain ideas, not the truth.

    - Wizards may also have developed systems for representing the conceptual content of spells abstractly. Gaining mastery of these systems may be a part of magical education. I see these as essentially non-mathematical (since Hogwarts does not teach mathematics) but they would play a role analagous to mathematics in science - abstract symbolic systems that allow more precise manipulation of concepts and the relations between concepts. Elsewhere I have proposed an example of a geometrical system whereby the concepts at play in a spell and their relations are represented geometrically.

    - All of the above is simply one (meta) narrative about magic among other narratives that are equally true. This narrative is particularly apt for describing regular spell-casting and also the nature of magically symbolic events (such as Lily's sacrifice) but is less apt for describing magic as a natural phenomenon e.g. magical plants and creatures.

    Imagine a universe where Newtonian mechanics and General Relativity were equally accurate and powerful theories: everything you can do with one, you can do with the other, with equal accuracy. Yet they describe the world in fundamentally different ways. Further, imagine that no amount of experiments into new areas will reveal anything to distinguish one system as being more accurate than the other: for every new field of inquiry discovered, both theories are equally apt.

    Now imagine that a third system is developed which is in turn equally accurate as the previous two, but which once again describes the world as constituting of fundamentally different entities/rules. And then a fourth system.

    Which theory is correct? Is the world Newtonian, or does it follow the rules of General Relativity, or the third or fourth systems? Arguably, in such a universe it makes no sense to ask if the world is relativistic or Newtonian. The world simply is, and we can talk about it in different ways. Of course there's still such a thing as an incorrect theory -- one which is not empirically adequate.

    There are some people who believe this is the case in real life, it's just that we haven't yet invested the effort/had the insight to develop the alternative systems that are equally empirically adequate to current scientific models.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
  4. Gengar

    Gengar Degenerate Shrimp –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    How do you begin to teach that to an eleven year-old?

    Study the concept of weight and control for the Levitation charm? What about the tickling charm?

    Give me your lesson plan, and a really general syllabus for first years Professor Taure.
     
  5. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    You start with the basics like wand handling, which we know Flitwick spent months on in PS before they started casting their first spell.

    I'm not going to write a year's curriculum lol, but here's a rough outline of an example lesson for fun. Obviously the specific content is all fanon. It's just to illustrate the idea:

    Lesson focus: element of fire

    Warmer: talk with students about their experiences of fire, including any accidental magic. Direct conversation to the ideas at work in fire rather than the physical properties. If students are shy, relax them with anecdote of Dumbledore's beard on fire. If they stuggle with concepts, talk about redwood trees and forest fires.

    Group exercise: put students into groups and have them brainstorm ideas related to fire. Put an example on board: "destruction". Give students 7 minutes to discuss, then return to whole class for feedback. Put all correct ideas on the board, discuss why incorrect ideas do not fit the concept.

    Possible ideas: destruction, anger, cleansing, purity, energetic activity, new beginnings, summer, suddenness, quick action, the sun, volcanic associations, power, danger, primal forces, ingenuity, passion, love.

    Demonstration: three charms involving an invocation of fire. Incendio, reparo, scourgify.

    Group exercise: in same groups, students discuss how fire is at work in these spells. Return to whole class for feedback. Stress the destructive nature of Incendio over its use of literal fire. If students struggle with this concept, demonstrate bluebell flames, which do not invoke fire.

    Demonstration: basic wand movements and positions which can invoke fire.

    Practical exercise: students practice the wand movements. Monitor for accuracy, look for common errors x, y, z. Have successful students help those struggling.

    Practical exercise: wand relay. Put students in teams of roughly even ability distribution. A list of wand movements are placed on the board. One student from each team runs to the front of the class and performs one of the wand movements. The rest of their team shouts the name of the wand movement. If the movement is performed correctly and the team guesses correctly, the student returns to their team and the next student runs to the front and performs the next movement. The first team to complete all the movements correctly wins.

    Homework: find five charms that involve an invocation of fire.
     
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2015
  6. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    That's why I don't throw Taure gauntlets. He has a nerd-level answer for anything.
     
  7. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Hello friends.

    It appears there is no longer a need for listing fanfiction pet peeves.

    This videos shows everything wrong with fanfiction.net.

    Welcome to Fanfiction.net

    I can guarantee one of these two results:

    1. You'll find it funny.

    or

    2. You'll want to start World War 3.
     
  8. Ghosthree3

    Ghosthree3 Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Oh my god it's perfect. Laughed and cried at the same time.
     
  9. Ankan

    Ankan Professor

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  10. Bramastra

    Bramastra Groundskeeper

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    Saw this a while ago and by far my favorite part is the transition from FFN to Wattapad.
     
  11. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    I'm a Jewish Deist devoted to a Watchmaking God. I'm not saying I could actually do it, but I'm saying it's possible.

    Also, can we move on from this Magic/Science Debate?
     
  12. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    We already did.
     
  13. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    My bad.

    In any case, great video. Thanks.
     
  14. Vira

    Vira Third Year ~ Prestige ~

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    I died at the Vocaloid fanfiction. Those voices make everything better.
     
  15. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem Auror

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    Retarded plots, and by that I mean plots that characters plan. I was just reading The World I Leave Behind, which is an interesting story in spite of all the bad angst, and came to a part of the story where the Order knows that there is a traitor in their midst, Harry is presumed dead, and Harry lookalikes enacted several terrorist acts simultaneously. Hermione is the only one in the Order that knows Harry isn't dead.

    Her plan? Polyjuice Harry to look like a random muggle and bring him with her to the Barrow. Surely no one would suspect the random stranger that somehow popped into a Fideliused location which Hermione is not the Secret-Keeper of. And then expose him when things calm down. Yep, because that's not going to end up a huge clusterfuck. I just can't continue reading, it's like watching a trainwreck in slow motion, and the resulting angst will probably make me vomit in my mouth a little.

    The worst part is that Harry instantly agrees with the plan, when several chapters earlier he concocted much more creative and better plans.
     
  16. Steelbadger

    Steelbadger Death Eater

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    It takes much more work and effort to write a thing than it takes to idly dream it up.
     
  17. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    To be fair, he had to take Veritaserum to prove his trustworthiness, and most of the Weasleys disliked him anyway. And they thought something was wrong with the Fidelius and tried to recast it IIRC. If you dislike all this drama, skim those chapters and skip to chapter 10 (Love, Lies and Loss), which has an excellent action scene and a twist at the end.

    The World I Leave Behind is a rather angst-y story throughout, but it has a few excellent scenes that stick around in your head for a long time. It is also one of Mira Mirth's favorite stories, which was how I noticed it in the first place.
     
  18. MonkeyEpoxy

    MonkeyEpoxy The Cursed Child DLP Supporter

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    Proof that even great fanfic authors can have shit taste, I guess.
     
  19. Stan

    Stan Order Member

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    Or maybe it is proof that different people have different tastes.
     
  20. MonkeyEpoxy

    MonkeyEpoxy The Cursed Child DLP Supporter

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    Nope, it's shit.
     
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