Watching this most recent episode, with my flatmate, neither of us who have read the books. Before it started we were discussing the weird way the Dorne stuff just hasn't come up again. We thought it'd be more important, and the kin-slaying galore. During the episode we found it weird that the dragons hovered and sprayed, rather than strafing. Particularly, rather than strafing from the back of the fleet where there weren't fireballs flying toward the city.

But in general, the acting, the cgi we found thoroughly enjoyable - and although the general outline of the battle was predictable from the earlier parts of the season, in execution we found it nervy and beautiful. As others have commented, some of those shots were straight up cinematic and the battle was brutal.

While the writing has notable flaws, this battle at least we didn't think there was much (unexplainable) craziness. Without the ultra-knowledge of people like Hash we're still finding GoT a very enjoyable series, even if it has some noticeable idiot balls.

 

All of this.

That was an amazing episode of television. Of course we all knew how the battle was going to end, the letter Sansa sent made it obvious.

Rickon not running in zig zags? He was a kid when everything went down, who knows what the Umbers taught him?

 

Great episode. Loved it, and felt some genuine worry for Jon and Tormund.

Rickon running in a straight line did irk me, mostly because it's been established that Ramsay is good with a bow, so even if they had Rickon weaving and dodging, I still would have bought Ramsay taking him down.

No reason not to have Rickon ducking and diving and still taking an arrow.

Am I right in thinking Ramsay even set up range markers with those burning flayed man crosses, making it even easier to judge the distance/wind?

 

As far as I understood it, Ramsay isn't the one that got Rickon. Ramsay's last shot missed, and then immediately after, an arrow went through him. I think Ramsay's archer took the last shot.

But yeah, a lucky shot while Rickon was at least trying to dodge the arrows would have been far more satisfying. Rickon almost deserved to die there. Jon did too for that matter. Risking your own life is one thing, but risking the lives of all your men is... ugh.

 

I'll acknowledge I'm being a bit pedantic, and I truly did enjoy the episode, but a couple things irritated me about it. The lack of Ghost next to Jon since his resurrection has been a mistake, imo. I would think having a very obvious symbol of Stark power and legitimacy would have been helpful in gathering allies, not to mention on the battlefield. Its especially irking that the dragons seem to get gratutious CGI funding.

Sansa also was in contact with Littlefinger and was complaining to Jon that they didn't have enough men, but refused to mention the possibility of Vale support. Still, beyond my usual annoyance with Mereen, it was a very solid episode.

 

He shot an arrow in a high arc and then took a straight shot at Rickon. The one that went high missed but arrived just before the straight shot.

It served to show that Ramsay was just toying with him.

 

I've really felt that the show has taken a dive in quality in terms of writing (production quality is still, obviously, excellent) maybe since season 4. Been struggling to watch a few of the previous episodes this season but I actually enjoyed this episode, thought that battle was good and the horror of it was suitably poignant.

Perhaps Jon Snow could have avoided a ridiculous one-man charge at an army, perhaps Rickon could have just hidden behind one of those burning effigies as cover to avoid Ramsay's arrows, perhaps Sansa could have just told everyone else that she was in contact with a huge force of Vale knights as reinforcements so they could have planned accordingly and, yeah, the lack of Ghost was noticeable. However, I enjoyed it.

 

The one mystery that remains to me is why Sansa didn't tell Jon about the cavalry after she had contacted Litterfinger. Her motivation on that front is completely opaque and the fact that she hadn't told him undermined her arguments against his battle plan.

I mean, the writers obviously wanted it that way so they could have the surprise cavalry charge to save the day, but it doesn't make too much sense.

The only way it makes sense if it's Sansa deliberately trying to undermine/kill off Jon in a power play. And while Sansa has indeed taken a more pragmatic/bloodthirsty turn, I don't think she's quite there yet. Especially as just a few episodes she turned Littlefinger away for precisely the opposite reason.

 

Terrible writing, Taure. Terrible writing. Maybe if she signed off on the Knights of the Vale coming sooner, her brother Rickon would still be alive.

 

First what I didn't like.

The girl power scene between Dany and Yara felt fake for some reason. Almost as bad as the Sand Snakes scenes.

Sansa arguing with Jon and not telling him that there is a good chance Vale will come to help them. He was making the best decision he could with the information he had. If he lost, she was the first person that should be blamed. The second was, of course, Jon himself because he didn't listen to what little she did said about Ramsay and almost died for it. Rickon running can be forgiven because I doubt he was having any rational thoughts when running for his life after few weeks with Bolton.

Now, what I liked.

Dany and her dragons. It was an amazing conclusion that almost made up for everything else that happened in Meereen this season.

The battle for the bastards definitely delivered. I do like Hardhome a little more because of its terrifying and completely silent ending, but I can't argue that this one tops everything that was ever showed in the television and probably 90% of battles in the blockbuster films. What they plan to do in the next season with fewer episodes and probably the same budged? Maybe a sea battle?

And I really liked that the rumours were wrong about Littlefinger getting revenge on Ramsay for Sansa. I was her revenge and it should be her that delivered it.

 

I didn't get it either, I tried to like Sansa recently but I still cant stand her character.
It seemed to me that she wanted to be the one responsible for winning the battle, of it being due to her actions that the North was won.

 

No, he wouldn't.

Even if Jon had known about the Knights of the Vale, Rickon would still have been murdered in some form or another.

Why would Ramsey risk keeping one of the only heirs to the North? It undermines his rule and puts a huge risk of betrayal from the other lords. Rickon's life was forfeit the moment the Umbers brought him. Sansa knew this and told Jon. She picked the rest of her family and her house over brother. It sucks, but that was how life was back in the day in warfare. You wouldn't sacrifice everyone to save a single person.

Chances are, if Ramsey knew they had the same amount (or more) of men, he would have kept in Winterfell and had them siege it. I could easily see Ramsey flaying Rickon alive on the battlements to piss Jon off. And, as we saw in this episode, Jon would have reacted. The siege would probably fail as well, as Winter is coming and the army already didn't have many supplies, as Jon mentioned as the reason they weren't waiting. Sansa was trying so hard to get Jon to wait a few days.

I am going to hold my judgement until next weeks episode where Sansa will be explaining why she didn't tell him, but my belief is that: 1) she didn't know if he would actually show up. She sent the letter but had no answer back. 2) She probably told Jon when she first saw him, what happened to her. To do this, she probably explained that Littlefinger was the one who killed the King, killed their aunt and was the one to give her to Ramsey. We don't even know if Jon would have accepted his help. 3) This link does explain some of the reasoning as well. It's a pretty interesting discussion on why Sansa did what she did.

Regardless, I don't get the hate for Sansa on this because Jon make an equally big mistake. He pretty much refused to listen to Sansa even though she was the only one to freaking know Ramsey. He fell into Ramsey's plot, which Sansa predicted and almost lost all the men fighting for him and the end of House Stark (minus Bran who is pretty much not a Stark anymore).

That and Sansa has gone through five seasons of people betraying her and losing faith in being honest. We can't expect her to turn it around in a few episodes and begin to trust people again. She pretty much even said in this episode that she can't trust anyone but herself. Everyone she has ever believed in has failed. She can only try to protect herself.
Sansa has learned from bad experience to never expose your hand... to anyone.. Everyone fails, no one can protect her, but herself.
She even says as much.


Sansa has learned from bad experience to never expose your hand... to anyone.. Everyone fails, no one can protect her, but herself.
She even says as much.


Sansa has learned from bad experience to never expose your hand... to anyone.. Everyone fails, no one can protect her, but herself.
She even says as much.


Sansa has learned from bad experience to never expose your hand... to anyone.. Everyone fails, no one can protect her, but herself.
She even says as much.


Sansa has learned from bad experience to never expose your hand... to anyone.. Everyone fails, no one can protect her, but herself.
She even says as much.

 

Can you clarify that? I'm convinced Bran is going to make it back to Winterfell and become Lord Stark.

As for Dany; does anyone else think her deal with Yara letting her be the Queen of the Iron Islands was a bad move politically? Yeah, the Martell's are still called Princes and Princesses, but that was because they successfully resisted Aegon and his dragons, and overthrew a second invasion attempt a century later. They negotiated their status and married into the Targaryens. Just seems like a move that could make potential allies jealous.

 

Game of Thrones Season 6: Anatomy of A Scene: The Battle of Winterfell (HBO).

The battle was impressive and how they created it is too.

Did she let Yara be a queen though? She said that they're not to question the Seven Kingdoms integrity and giving her a title of a queen automatically does that. Unless Dany plans to give this title to the other main Houses and become someone like a Queen of Kings and Queens or simply an Empress of Westeros and Essos. Could work I suppose.

By the way, will there be more to Euron or is he going to be all about dick jokes now? With the army she has and with rumours of who will support her claim, she is in a need of a serious defeat in the next season. Underestimating the mad pirate and losing a dragon or two to him could be that, but I'm starting to doubt it will happen. There is nothing even hinting that the show Euron has book Euron's magical advantages.

 

Oh absolutely, Spanks, and if Dany thinks Yara and her descendants on that rock of an island will never reave again then good luck to her. Never mind what will happen to Westeros in the long term with a Dothraki nation galloping up and down the length of it.

Did anyone else notice the shot in the middle of the battle, where John emerges and looks up into the sky while in the middle of the press? It reminded me of the scene with Dany at the end of the Mhysa episode, and is probably a bit of foreshadowing.

I second that Ghost's absence was noticeable.

 

The thing is, Jon was completely right to not listen to her, because she was concealing the single piece of information that made her right.

 

I doubt any of the current standing armies will still be around after the Others and the dead invade. Mass death incoming.

 

For me the ideal end to this season will be a shot panning out as the Wall collapses, and the dead climbing over the remains.

 

I suspect this will be the next season ending. This season will either end with the white ravens arriving to announce the winter or a scene showing the Wall when massive cracks start to appear on it.

 

1. Sansa did not know whether the Vale contingent would be there:

Even assuming that Sansa did not want to raise false hope that help was around the corner, it was felt that the sole purpose of the knights was to be shoehorned in so that Sansa could get character-agency. Never mind that an army of that size would have been found out by scouts half a day before from any one of the camps or that any army that entered the North would have alerted so many holdfasts that ravens would be flying with haste.
Still, it is understandable that the charge was needed for drama.
The above also shows that the writing suffers from bad world building.

2. Sansa's advice was well-thought out and one that Jon should have taken into consideration is evident.

3. Sansa does not trust anyone: If she does not trust anyone then what would she even do? Why bother with all the effort to take back the North?

Cynicism hardly implies that Sansa should act in this way. Sansa did not trust Baelish to do anything for her yet it did not stop her from using their help.
Holding all the cards to her chest only gets her certain death in this scenario.

Jon looked completely out of it in the beginning of the season but was it not Sansa who was the most eager to do something?
This attempt to make Sansa seem relevant only made her character look erratic.

If I can see so many problems then surely the writers would see more.