I'm aware of that, but that is a difference instance. You can't say his original birth fulfils part of the prophecy and his rebirth fulfils the other half... That doesn't make sense, either one or the other should tick off everything in the prophecy. Not a culmination of both. But at the moment we are talking about the TV show, not the books, his stab wounds don't smoke in the TV show, and neither does he say Ghost as he dies.

 

You answered your own question. Dany has three flying nukes that automatically make her a contender in any conflict she feels like. Tyrion is also looking for a horse to hitch his revenge/validation wagon to, and Dany fits the bill perfectly.

Speaking as a fan I like Dany because she's trying to do the right thing, she's arguably the only one with power left alive doing that. Sure she makes mistakes, sure she behaves like an actual teenage girl, but she's freed the slaves and realized that she needed to learn how to rule. When there are complaints that she's terrible at it, so was Robb, so is Cersei, so was Renly and so is, maybe was, Stannis in his own way. All of the contenders are flawed, Daenerys is the one who's cognizant of her flaws and is still trying to improve.

Plus she's probably also going to save the world.

 

You are right, we should ignore the books in this instance. I could refer to steam/mist/fog/etc. as smoke but the scene has neither.

I could argue that is the dust during the fighting scene but... too try hard.

 

Game of Thrones season 7 directors.

Only four of them which probably confirms a shorter season. Unless Alan Taylor directs 4 episodes as he did in the second season.

Miguel Sapochnik is not on the list and I'm already a little less excited for the next season. They better get him back for the eighth.

Michele Clapton is back as a costume designer though she did 9th and 10th episode this year too. Can't say the other designer was bad, but you can tell that something improved in that department in the last two episodes.

 

Tyrion himself is also a huge fan of dragons. As a child, he read the fantastical tales of magic and dragons, and although Tywin shut down his dreams, Tyrion yearned a more mystical song. Despite his cynical nature, Tyrion had an esoteric fascination in the arcane and in the possibility that non-terrible people could attain positions of power. Daenerys has her flaws, but to Tyrion, she represents not only his childhood dreams of dragons and magic but also his delicate hopes that non-shitty people can become leaders.

I mean, we have to consider where Tyrion is coming from. He's coming out of an era where Robert didn't give much shits about his subjects and an even worse era where Joffrey became an utter shitstain of a ruler. After Joffrey, Tyrion is dying to believe in somebody who's not a piece of crap.

Daenerys isn't Joffrey. If anything, she has adopted Tyrion's suggestions, and she seems to care about the needs of others. I myself never got the huge appeal of the Targaryens, but I do love Barristan's comment:

"But every child knows that the Targaryens have always danced too close to madness. Your father was not the first. King Jaehaerys once told me that madness and greatness are two sides of the same coin. Every time a new Targaryen is born, he said, the gods toss the coin in the air and the world holds its breath to see how it will land."

 

Dany may not be Joffrey, but she is still far from being non-shitty. Not only that, she's just plain bad at things but she gets ahead through a myriad of DEMs or her three flyimg DEMs. Martin and the showrunners are trying to make a hero/protagonist out of her but the substance just isnt there.

Eh.

 

I'm not sure she is that bad.

I agree, I am not in favor of the Targs, purely because I think the idea of rooting for someone because who their last name is stupid. No one has the right to rule.

But aside from that, she has good ideas, just not great at implimenting. No slavery, no pointless deaths, paying people for destroyed property. Also remember she is like 16 during her biggest mess ups.

She has learnt and grown (Hopefully). Although I don't think she deserves to rule, I think once there she will do well at it, since Westeros by in large share her ideals.

 

I like Daenerys because she is the one character that started from almost nothing.

Yeah, she might have had a famous name, but she was practically a slave for the first part of the series. She was sold as a broodmare at the age of 13 to a violent warlord by her crazy brother who abused her growing up. Luckily, she had some freedom in the tribe and was able to start gaining some confidence. She realized that the only way to better her situation was to get Khal Drogo to see her as something other than a pretty sex toy.

So she learned the language, the customs, how to please in the bedroom; and it worked. She did not want power, or to rule the seven kingdoms, she wanted a family to call her own, which she was gaining.

Then, everything went to shit because she was desperate to save her husband. She lost her child and had to kill her husband. I do think she was ready to die when she walked into that fire when her dragons were born.

Suddenly, she realizes that her name has meaning. That in a way, she is special. However, it was still a struggle of survival. In Qarth, they just wanted to use her and after breaking free, again, she decided that she would not be used again.

She is against slavery because she was practically a slave and most her friends in the tribe were slaves. It makes sense.

I think this last episode had her appear to be quite human. She says this in the last episode: "Do you know frightens me? I said farewell to a man who loves me. A man I thought I cared for. And I felt nothing. Just impatient to get on with it."

I found this write up and I think it fits her perfectly, and shows another reason why I like her.

Almost throughout the entire series of the television show, we never really see her break down. In this season specifically, we see her regurgitating her titles, assuring others of her own grand status, that she is the Mother of Dragons, the Queen of the world, the savior of Slaver's Bay. The Red Priests call her Azor Ahai and no doubt she's aware of such rumors and worship as well. Her citizens, her Doth'Raki and her followers literally believe she's a God. Yet, in the face of such an enormity of ordinance, of meaning and value and the cosmic importance of who and what she is--we find that in her heart of hearts, she's wracked with the most fearsome thing of all, nihilism.

Tyrion doesn't quite get that Daenery's is suffering from something more than just guilt over feeling nothing for Daario, it's guilt for feeling nothing for herself. Just as Daario was someone she "thought she cared for," the Iron Throne and her family's legacy is what she thinks she wants now--but these feelings of emptiness over Daario has led her to the realization that she doesn't actually know what she wants. She doesn't actually know what she cares for. This fear that she's fighting with is the fear that once the throne is won, this feeling of emptiness will return--that despite all the posturing and destiny that fate and the world itself is driving into her, there nevertheless remains the hollowness of her being. She's afraid that once she's queen, the only thing that will remain is the impatience to "get on with it."

Her whole mission in life to restore the Targaryen dynasty has never actually been her own. Tyrion says, "everything you've wanted since you were old enough to want anything"--but in reality these were the things Viscerys wanted, and instilled in her as what she ought to want as well. Dany has never had to opportunity to develop wants of her own, and the birth of her own dragons had ironically sealed the path Viscerys had laid out before her. There's never been a moment in her life when she's actually done serious self-reflection and decided truly that her path is the one most authentic. Forces beyond her control, from Viscerys selling her to Khal Drogo to the birth of her own dragons, has railroaded her into carrying on the Targaryen name, to fire and blood.

That this conversation comes right before Dany sails to Westeros is no coincidence, it's to complicate this alleged hero and savior who is being brought up to rescue the world. Up to now, Daenerys has been content with belief in the identity forged for her by fate, that she is the last of the dragons, the promised Queen, the liberator of man--but the feeling of dread and nausea that came with her leaving Daario has led her down a horrifying and brutal self-realization. She feels nothing for what she's doing. Tyrion at the end, still entirely misunderstanding of her affliction, says "I believe in you." Ironically trying to support her, he says the very thing that frightens her the most. She doesn't even believe in herself--not in the honkey dorey sense of self-confidence, but the very real crisis of one's rejection of one's constructed identity. Dany, the person, has realized the monster she's created in Daenerys Stormborn, the Dragon Queen, the worshiped living God. And it's far, far too late to go back.

If you want to read more: https://www.reddit.com/r/asoiaf/comments/4q24ti/spoilers_main_astounding_overdue_insight_into/

Either way, I like Daenerys because she came from nothing unlike every other character in ASOIAF and she has been slowly building up her power, instead of it being handed to them.

 

...she was handed literally everything. More so than basically anyone else, save perhaps Cersei. The fact that she has suffered is...irrelevant? Most have.


Edit: I mean, fuck. You know who the self-made successes are? Ramsay, Littlefinger, and Varys. This is your standard for praise?

 

There's only one person who is even close to a self-made success in ASOIAF and that's Duncan the bloody Tall.

 

Daenerys got three flying nukes, one army who quite fortunately for her were trained to follow her just cause she received a stick, while the entire world tried to court her. They only stopped that after she started burning them down. Hell, even the mercenaries came to her without her paying any gold.

What? No. She was against Slavery because Martin made such an over the top evil slavery that she would either be as evil by using them or had to opposite it, before that she was just freaking fine with it. Like, she wanted to be married to Drogo and be a khaleesi, aka lead the by the far biggest slavers in the known world.

She's a Targaryen. The Blood of the Dragon. The last Dragonlords. HER NAME IS WORTH MORE THAN 99,99% OF THE PEOPLE IN THE WORLD.

 

She did not WANT to be married to Drogo. In fact, she asked her brother if "she could go home" to the house with the Red Door before the marriage. She did NOT wish to be married to a warlord she knew nothing of. She did not have a choice in her marriage and once she was married, she tried to make best of the situation by rising her status above a broodmare.

She also multiple times, tried to get Khal Drogo to stop slavery. It showed how little power she had. She was only able to stop the rapes she saw by telling the other tribal members that these were her slaves, and therefore they couldn't touch them. She then freed them. She also freed all the slaves once her husband died as well.

She was NEVER for slavery. The ONLY reason she didn't stop slavery in the tribe was because SHE DID NOT HAVE THE POWER TO DO SO. She was just the mate of the Khalessar, very little more. It seems like she has power in the books because, she had absolutely NONE under her brother. This little bit of freedom and power would seem enormous to her. But in reality, we saw how little power she had. Once her husband died, 99% of the tribe left her.

Perhaps after she had the Dragons, yes. But before they used to call her brother the "begger king" and most took him out of pity, or to try to use him and his sister. The only reason why she was even married to Khal Drogo was because Varys and the guy they were staying with, offered a huge dowry to Drogo as well as presenting him with a pretty and exotic bride, which his ego liked. They were all using her though for their own ends.

---------- Post automerged at 03:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:45 PM ----------

Let's compare other main characters compared to Dany at the start.

Dany: May have had a famous name, but had no money, no family outside her crazy brother, and no connections. She was sold to a violent warlord of another culture in exchange for arms to help her brother's conquest of the narrow sea. She realized to gain happiness, she had to seduce her husband and get him to love her. From there, she started her gradual raise to power until she made a stupid mistake which caused the rest of her new family to die and she was left with slaves, dragons and a few people who wanted to help her. She had to build her power from scratch, though she did get a huge bump by her dragons. Going from no power to having the equivalent to nukes would fuck anyone up, and she has made tons of mistakes in trying to rule properly. She is trying though.

Jon Snow: Because he was raised in Winterfell and was a Stark, he was given incredible opportunities at the Wall. He would have never been Steward or a Commander if it was not for his name. The Wildlings would have never given him a chance (when he was undercover) if he was not a Stark as well. He is a great fighter because his father had someone train him like his trueborn children. Also, powerful warg.

Sansa Stark: The eldest daughter and was to be the Queen of the Seven Kingdoms at the beginning of the books. It is due to her name and her father's influence. Half the reason her decline happened in the books were due to her own mistakes. She is also rescued by Baelish because of her name and beauty (and because he wants her)... If the show is correct, Sansa will get the Vale behind her because of her name and family.

Arya Stark: Once again, a Stark. She was able to survive leaving King's Landing because her father had someone teach her how to fight, as well as the Brother from the Wall protecting her on the way North. Her way of life is incredibly different than most people in Westeros as she doesn't want power, but skill. She is still benefited with her name and blood, such as making her a warg that helps her pass her training.

Bran Stark: Name, Warg, Greenseer, guy with stupidly powerful abilities. Cons: crippled.

Cersei and Jamie Lannister: I don't think I need to explain this one...

Tyrion: Raised in one of the richest families in the world. He may have been hated, but he had tremendous influence due to his wealth and name. When he had to flee Westeros, Varys would still provide him almost everything he asked for. It is because his name, he is useful to Aegon and Dany.

I don't think I'm missing any other huge characters.

In conclusion: Dany really doesn't have anything more handed to her compared to every other major character in ASOIAF. In fact, at the start of the series, she has significantly less. Her main boon was being able to hatch the dragon eggs. I will admit this is a huge power-up, but it is unavoidable as well. She would have never been let into Qarth without her dragons, and probably would have died in the desert. She did almost everything else under her own power and decisions, even though she had help with the dragons. Just like all the Starks did with their warging powers and wolves... and the Lannisters with their wealth and influence.

Lastly, even though she had dragons, she also had to plan out her conquests. She made some major decisions on her own to help her win battles. We also have to realize that in the books she is not immune to fire, so we don't know how she will earn the loyalty of the Khals.

 

Some people find Daenerys boring because she never had a significant setback.

Sold for her beauty but she finds love.
Lost your family? You just won three nukes.
A assassin sneaks in your tent but he doesn´t want you dead.


I don´t want her dead but if she continues scoring win after win in a world where everydoy got screwed she becomes boring.

 

The problem with Daenerys is that all her trials actually contributed not all that much: every problem she faces is solved by some external factor. This is even worse in the show because the plot had to be cut to make it shorter and 'Jesus-Dany' looks to be the writers' favourite trope.

 

Has anyone else seen the Oxford Union Game of Thrones interview, from early 2015? In it Kit states that he would like to be a warg, and DB Weiss says two words, season six. Now that season six is over, if I'm not mistaken, this hasn't happened. What do you guys think happened between now and then?

 

I think he said it to excite people, not because it was part of the plan.

We know that they will straight up lie about future plot points, so don't read too far into it.

 

Could also be down to budgetary reasons; it seems like they killed off Summer to save on the direwolf CGI, which might explain why Ghost has barely been in the season. It's particularly noticeable since they started calling Jon the 'White Wolf' to parallel Robb.

 

Blast from the past!

What's interesting here is Sophie's list. We know that Ramsay died, we know that one or two, depending on how you count them, people on Arya's list are still alive (Cersei and unGregor, sort of -- anyway, she didn't check 3 names off her list), we haven't seen Lady Stoneheart but can't really be sure. Unless this list includes Season 7, in which case it's more likely that Arya kills all of the people on her list than that LSH returns, but if that's not the case... then did Sophie actually make this into "Two Lies and a Truth"?

 

I suppose one would argue that Walder Frey name consisted of Walder Frey and his two sons. His son's are the one's that did the actual murdering, would be strange that Aria would spare them and only target Walder Frey.