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Plot Bunny Threa(d/t) V

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Dark Minion, Mar 1, 2015.

  1. H_A_Greene

    H_A_Greene Unspeakable –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Right now I'm kicking around a story where, in his youth, Dumbledore found a way to access Avalon and speak with the long-forgotten Fae. By the time that Grindelwald turns up in his life Dumbledore has spent some time studying this strange and alien world(be it in the hopes that they can cure Ariana's condition and/or as a general means of demonstrating his own brilliance yet further, possibly by bringing them back from the shadows).

    Grindelwald finds himself attracted to the unknown possibilities here and the darker species in the other-realm also take an interest in him. But the Fae have been gone from the mortal world since the medieval ages, and they cannot cross back over easily or without breaking some ancient set of oaths/laws/codes. And physically accessing Avalon is a bitch in and of itself even for the two of these excessively brilliant minds, though Dumbledore eventually manages and say works out a deal for Ariana to stay in Avalon to be treated, leading to Aberforth getting up in arms over losing their sister.

    Think of the Fae here as akin to the Dresden Files; strong on oaths, bargaining in exchange for names and power, but mostly stuck on the other-side of reality. Until Dumbledore rediscovered the ways to contact them, Avalon has been sealed off from earth since around the 7th or 8th century or so.

    Skim forward a few decades, somewhere around 1930-35. Having never broken off from each other Dumbledore and Grindelwald have advanced their ties in Avalon and their agendas regarding the Deathly Hallows and muggle suppression. The Great War has ended but a second is building in the muggle society. For whatever reason Dumbledore finally realizes just what he and his partner have been colluding and setting into motion, and when he finds that he cannot follow through, and cannot convince Grindelwald to stop, they end up dueling.

    Dumbledore successfully claims the Elder Wand at this time and leaves the country they have been scheming in(figuring they moved to Germany at some point), returning to England.

    By the time that they eventually meet again the Second World War is closing and the perspectives each man holds has changed to varying degrees. A slightly more deranged Grindelwald leads an army of Dark Fae who broke the oaths, alongside his personally trained wizarding troops and the assortment of German infantry acquired from Hitler. On the opposing side Dumbledore, armed with a rather smaller assortment of Fae bargained for to bring in the oath breakers, and as many muggleborn troops as he could muster, meet along the Rhine.

    Cue bloodbath. Most of it on Grindelwald's side early on. The fighting carves a horrific path all the way back to Germany, with most everyone on both sides having perished but for Grindelwald, Dumbledore, a few Fae, and a handful of soldiers.

    Rather than face defeat, Grindelwald immolates his being down to the soul as a final denial to Dumbledore. And in the aftermath, the ruling being over the Fae, who Dumbledore has long been clashing with, pops up to collect for the services rendered.

    The skirmish is eventually cleaned up and quieted up. Very few in any world know the exact details of what went down. Dumbledore accepts the position of Minister for Magic.

    I'm still working out the intervening years from 1945ish to 1981, but Dumbledore has taken under his wing James and Lily Potter, and maybe a few others, possibly still creating the Order of the Phoenix to counteract the rising threat of Lord Voldemort. Should a prophecy still be involved and Dumbledore learn of it, he makes another bargain with the Fae's ruler to ensure that the Dark Lord's 'equal' is protected while trying to train those most likely to be targeted.

    Voldemort and cohorts arrive at the Potter household. James and Lily still die, although not without putting up an incredible last stance. Voldemort attacks Harry as per canon; the killing curse is reflected by the other-magic placed on the infant and Voldemort is succinctly vaporized.

    Dumbledore arrives to assess the situation. Finds both his students dead along with a handful of Death Eaters, finds Harry alive if wounded. Being rather more jaded to this point from his interactions with the Fae, when the ruler inevitably appears from a cracked mirror, he insists that they take in Harry so that the boy can be sheltered from all harm and eventually ready to learn how to fight when he is returned 'on his eleventh birthday'.

    That would wrap up the prologue. The meat of the story is a young Harry exploring the alien society of Avalon under the care of Erised(a vagabond on the outskirts of Avalon who also once tended to Ariana Dumbledore) and learning about magic that is rarely seen beyond. Learning how to interact with magic directly, to shape it with his intentions, to hear it and see it. Learning about the history of the shadow-world opposite reality, about the assortment of (often dangerous) creatures who inhabit the land. When Harry returns to the regular world at eleven to enroll in Hogwarts he has an intuitive grasp over the subjects and excels rapidly.

    Dumbledore eventually appears to offer Harry more difficult subjects that capitalize upon his years in Avalon. Seeing as Harry was only to stay in Avalon until he turned eleven, that place is no longer his home, so he either gets saddled up with the Dursleys or Dumbledore finds accommodations in say Diagon Alley or even just Godrics Hollow to speed up the learning process. This would be in short snippets rather than necessarily retreading years 1-7 of education.

    Somewhere around fourteen or fifteen Harry is informed about Voldemort and blah blah the story takes a narrative shift as he begins to use his knowledge to track down the soul-anchors binding Voldemort to life.

    Following the sullen song of the Horcruxes compared to the bright symphony that life and natural magic exudes sends him far and wide. Couple of break-ins at Gringotts for the Diary and the Cup. Unsure on if the others will be in canon-compliant locations or shifted elsewhere in this backstory.

    As for Voldemort himself throughout these intervening years, I don't expect him to pose a great deal of threat until maybe after Harry gets underway with the hunting. Flamel would have kept the Stone safe in his France Estate, so that's out. Jumping from host to host might keep him around acquiring information but without knowing how he was defeated that night and with no trace of Harry Potter for a decade, he isn't accomplishing a great deal. I could have him jump-start his return to a body via that ritual though.

    In short I haven't really figured out what I want to do with that.

    So... thoughts? Would you read something like this?
     
  2. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    Actually, I once read a theory that Dippet knew perfectly well Hagrid was innocent, and only expelled him because he needed a scapegoat.

    Think about it: while Hagrid did have a dangerous monster, it happened to be one that isn't know to cause petrification. Add in the fact it's a young one Hagrid insisted he got from outside Hogwarts, and it can't really be Slytherin's monster.

    And once Dippet expelled the half-giant to appease people, he now had a half-giant with nowhere to go. It probably didn't take much on Dumbledore's part to convince Dippet to let Hagrid be a groundskeeper: it was a perfectly legitimate way to live without Magic he was well suited for: really big and strong, a genuine talent with magical creatures.
     
  3. Rayndeon

    Rayndeon Professor

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    My thoughts on the situation is that it may have been similar to the situation with Umbridge and Trelawney in Order of the Phoenix, where Umbridge had Ministerial authority to sack Trelawney, but Dumbledore retained the right to allow Trelawney to continue to live on Hogwarts's grounds.

    Perhaps something similar happened in Hagrid's case: either the Ministry or perhaps the School of Governors ensured that Hagrid was expelled—since Hagrid's wand was snapped, I assume it had to partly involve Ministerial intervention, and of course the fact that a student was killed—but Dumbledore convinced Dippet to allow Hagrid to lodge at Hogwarts, perhaps by taking on the position of Keeper of the Keys or the like.

    Dippet may have either be convinced after the fact that Hagrid was innocent, but unable to re-instate Hagrid as a student following the injunction, or alternatively, he may have been moved by sympathy via Dumbledore's persuasion, towards Hagrid's plight, or something along those lines.

    If that's the case, then there's a possible explanation for how it could be the case that Hagrid was expelled for manslaughter while still being allowed to stay on Hogwarts's grounds.

    One thing I'm not sure about is Hagrid's living situation prior to all this. I believe his father died in 1941, but I don't think we had any information regarding an orphanage or the like where Hagrid stayed in the interim. There's a possibility he lived at Hogwarts from then on, but Dippet hadn't allowed even Riddle to stay at Hogwarts, IIRC, and Dippet liked Riddle from what we saw in Chamber of Secrets. This would suggest that Hagrid would not have lived in Hogwarts at the time, unless Dumbledore also convinced Dippet to allow Hagrid stay at Hogwarts after his father died.

    Thoughts?
     
  4. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Living like Merlin.


    What if you woke up tomorrow and found out that it is not in fact tomorrow, but yesterday?

    The premise is that for some unexplained reason Harry starts living days backwards. Time flows normally during them, but once 24 hours pass he finds himself waking up a day earlier.

    He wakes up in his own younger body exactly where he originally woke up during those days. So if on August 31st he was sleeping at the Dursleys then that's where he'll wake up regardless where he is before the daily switch.

    I'm thinking that the best time for this to activate is during his final confrontation with Voldemort. Perhaps after Harry speaks with Dumbledore in the ethereal King's Cross he comes back to the day before the Battle of Hogwarts.

    He then fights the battle again and eventually wakes up even earlier. And earlier, and earlier and earlier...


    Some more thoughts:

    1. While dying of old age will no longer be a threat to Harry, the threat of un-birthing will once he reaches the day of his birth. Of course, something else entirely may happen once he reaches that point, but he doesn't know that.

    2. With each day going backwards Harry will become smarter and more knowledgeable compared to his classmates. This is basically a Peggy Sue premise except that he physically goes through all the years backwards.

    3. There is no reason for him to acquire anything physical since it will be gone the next time he wakes up. Also no reason to write anything down. He'll have to memorize everything.

    4. I am unsure if Voldemort's Horcrux in Harry still should be present. If it's gone then so is Harry's connection to Voldemort but also gone is his Parseltongue ability.
     
  5. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    Anyone ever noticed how in practically every Indy!Harry fic ever written, the goblins are involved in some way, shape or form? They're the ones who send Harry an owl regarding something important. They're the ones who have Sirius' Will. They're the ones who reveal he's the Heir of Something. They're the ones who give him access to enough vaults to make him Uber Rich. They're the ones who notify him about all his Marriage Contracts. They're the ones who tell him Dumbledore's been 'containing' Harry's magic or something, along with being the ones to 'unlock' it. They're the ones who provide any service Harry might possibly want or need. They even swear they're undying loyalty to Harry after he's polite that one time and/or remembers Griphook's name also that one time.

    In said Indy!Harry fics, the goblins just so happen to be doing all this without any real motivation outside of Helping Harry, and it's a coincidence they are so crucial to achieving Indy!Harry.

    But what if it isn't a coincidence, and they were in fact manipulating Harry all along to achieve their own ends?

    What if they were molding him to hating the Wizarding World in favor of the goblins? What if they were molding him manipulating him to start another Goblin War in their favor? What if they were even controlling Harry in some way, pretending the ritual to do so is how Harry 'unlocks' his Magic?
     
  6. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Rhaegar I

    What if just once we had a fic where Harry is a straight-up unsympathetic bigot?

    Like, none of that "Dark-but-not-evil" bullshit. No, he'd be a goddamn evil son of a bitch.

    He'd hate muggles and muggleborns, he'd hate house elves and he'd hate goblins.

    Of course, such a fic wouldn't be very popular for clear reasons, but it'd be something different for a change.
     
  7. Download

    Download Auror ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I think we tossed around the idea a few years back here of the goblins going through all of the Indy!Harry steps only to rob him blind.
     
  8. Puzzled

    Puzzled High Inquisitor

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    I'd read it, but I have to say that it reminds me of Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell, especially the whole part where Harry gets sent to faerie. To me that's a good thing, but it seems like a more natural comparison than the Dresden Files.
     
  9. Rhaegar I

    Rhaegar I Death Eater

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    I don't know, if done right an Evil-Harry could be pretty good. His transformation to being Evil, being in some way interesting while being Evil, the POV is someone who knows what he's really like, Harry gradually realizing what he's become.

    I'm not saying it'd be easy to write such a fic. But if someone could pull off a Hitler Youth learning Magic at Durmstrang, I'm sure a good, even great Evil-Harry could be done.
     
  10. Oruma

    Oruma Order Member

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    He needs to hate the purebloods (inbrids), the hybrids, the werewolves, and the centaurs, too.
    But! He's also fighting for justice, the protection of the innocent, not vengeance.
    In other words, Sam Vimes!Harry.
     
  11. Peter North

    Peter North Dark Lord

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    The problem with evil Harry is that most of those fics have him just about standing on top of the Slytherin tabel at Hogwarts screaming Mudblood at the top of his lungs whilst his eyes are popping out of his skull and drool is dribbling out of his mouth.
    I want to see an evil Harry who only values the lives of magical creatures and wants to kill everyone else.
     
  12. KGB

    KGB Headmaster

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    I think the best Evil!Harry would be a tongue in cheek fic from a Slytherin perspective. Perhaps no need for the tongue in cheek if the author can make the "traditions" relatable to the reader.

    Have Harry be the rash revolutionary tearing down everything they held dear. With Hermione, Seamus, Ron and other mudbloods and bloodtraitors at his side.

    Show how disadvantaged the purebloods become, because the world they find themselves in is completely alien and hostile to them. Surely there would be some retaliation from muggleborns after the whole "camp" deal.
     
  13. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    See, that still has elements of deserved revenge and so on. In fact, there are several camps that would argue that while he's not being Lawful he's doing Good.
     
  14. KGB

    KGB Headmaster

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    Some would no matter what. Just as some claim Snape was a decent human being despite all the evidence to the contrary.
     
  15. chaosattractor

    chaosattractor Groundskeeper

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    You don't have to be an outlandish thinker to think that Muggleborns turning on purebloods (blood traitors are even specifically excluded) is not inherently evil and is in fact not really worth crying about.
     
  16. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    All muggleborns should be sent to gulag, lol ;)
     
  17. KGB

    KGB Headmaster

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    Yes sure, there is a certain amount schadenfreude that people will gain from it, but that is more of a challenge to overcome for the author. Make even those that feel that all purebloods are responsible for Death Eater crimes empathy for your characters.
     
  18. H_A_Greene

    H_A_Greene Unspeakable –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Good to know. I've heard that name before but I've never read it, whereas I am rather more familiar with Dresden.

    On a related note, since Dumbledore would be the Minister here, I need some help from anyone willing to work out an answer to a couple of problems I'm butting heads with here.

    1. Since Albus Dumbledore does not take up a teaching position at Hogwarts who, among the remaining staff, would you say succeeds Armando Dippet as Headmaster?

    2. What influence does this have upon Remus Lupin's education at Hogwarts? Given his affliction and that the Shrieking Shack was supposedly commissioned per Dumbledore so that Remus would have a place to transform safely every month, does the new Headmaster also act in Remus' interests, or is he somehow confined otherwise(be it magically, physically, or say by potion)? Is he expelled once his status becomes known to this Headmaster given the threat he may pose to the remaining students and staff?
     
  19. wordhammer

    wordhammer Dark Lord DLP Supporter

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    You kinda need to reel back the question to 'who becomes Transfiguration professor instead of Dumbledore?' The reason why is that Tom Riddle's introduction to magical society was done by Dumbledore, who chose to scare him out of thievery, and otherwise was keeping an eye on him.

    To maintain a semblance of the existing timeline, you'd need to make Dumbledore's substitute someone equally hawkish about ethics, or else Tom might have been running the place by the time he was meant to leave.

    It might be necessary to create an OC version of McGonagall to take over in Albus' place. Not being quite the well-regarded personality that the humble defeater-of-Grindelwald would have been, that person would continue on, though perhaps Dippet would have retired earlier without having Dumbledore maintaining order in the castle for him.

    In that case, the aforementioned-elsewhere Galatea Merrythought might step up, as she was retiring from teaching, but might have been intrigued by the relatively low-effort job of Headmistress as an alternative. That's even if you want to mess with OC's that much.

    Merrythought would have been replaced in Defence with whomever took over originally up until Riddle came back to apply for the job.

    Now for Remus, I think he would have been politely but emphatically encouraged to pursue home-schooled education, and his brief visit to the school to take the OWLs would have been carefully monitored. With Remus absent and thereby not prompting his friends to learn to be animagi, the Marauders would probably have been less successful troublemakers. Sure, they've got the Cloak and the attitude, but Remus' situation rather demanded more of them in terms of learning stealth, transfiguration and the charms necessary to create a map so that they could evade regular patrols on very specific days, every month.

    It really creates a lot of butterflies to consider when you move Dumbledore away from his canon position of influence.
     
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2016
  20. Majube

    Majube Order Member DLP Supporter

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    Who says Dumbledore needs to not be in Hogwarts at all? Merely, that he could've rejected the position of Headmaster an went on to become the Minister, a direct reverse of canon. Seeing as how Dippet retired a bit after Riddle graduated so Riddle still dealt with besides the Horcrux, Defense curse? But yeah everything after that (such as your Remus case) still stands. I agree that there's a lot of butterflies to deal with, though Dumbledore could've made very lenient werewolf laws later on if you go with Minister DumbledoreFor The Greater Good.
     
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