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Complete Mother of Learning by nobody103 - T - Original Fantasy

Discussion in 'Original Fiction' started by Betosa, Apr 3, 2013.

  1. Clerith

    Clerith Ahegao Emperor ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    A fun chapter, pretty exciting one too.

    I actually like Zorian and Zach working together, surprisingly. There's potential for future bromance.
     
  2. Ceebee

    Ceebee High Inquisitor

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    I strongly got the impression that Red Robes is meant to be a simulacrum gone rogue.
     
  3. One

    One Second Year

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    I agree, but who's? Zach's? or Veyers'? or someone else entirely?

    I have to say, I like theory of either Red Robes being a simulacrum of Zach or Zach being a simulacrum of Red Robes. However, there is a major problem with that theory, mainly that Zach doesn't have soul awareness, which can't be explained away due to being mind-wiped, since it's more of a proficiency.

    So, that would mean that Red Robes COULDN'T be a simulacrum of Zach gone wrong, no matter how interesting that would be. I guess Zach could be a simulacrum of Red Robes, but wasn't as good of a reflection of Red Robes to inherit all of his abilities. But, that would beg the question of why Zach would be able to beat Red Robes so easily, despite being a copy. So there's problems with both ways of thinking of it, but it would be interesting if either of those worked out somehow and ended up being the truth.

    P.S.: If either Zach or Red Robes were a simulacrum of the other, it would help explain why both Zach and Red Robes are considered to be legitimate controllers by the Guardian.
     
  4. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    If I get how simulacrum works then the Red Robe can't be one because it doesn't have its own soul that could travel inside the loop, only body and mind. And even if there was a way around it, its body would need to exists before it even started for it to have somewhere to go back to.

    I quite liked the chapter and want to learn more about things that they find inside the Royal Treasury and the academy library.

    Since the simulacrum was found, I change my prediction about the dragon's lair from having a spell to having one of the Keys.

    The fourth one will probably be somehow connected to Daimen because there is no other obvious reason to get him involved in the action that close to the resolution.
     
  5. Majube

    Majube Order Member DLP Supporter

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    What if Red Robes is a simulacrum of a Veyers that Zach trained in one reset? Then the simulacrum mind wiped Zach, stole original Veyers soul and joined Zachs loop.
    Or is that too crazy a theory?
     
  6. Alindrome

    Alindrome A bigger, darker mark DLP Supporter Retired Staff

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    Ooh, this was a good chapter. Lots of interesting developments, a bit of action and some bromance. It's good to see the author doing more showing than telling, while still keeping the pace. I'm loving the possibilities of the simulacrum spell.

    In that case, why not just have it be Veyers? :p
     
  7. Ceebee

    Ceebee High Inquisitor

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    I'm more inclined to think that Red Robes is a simulacrum of Zach that decided it wanted to be 'the real one' and saw getting out of the loop as a potential way of doing that.

    Or this is all just another one in the series of 'plausible clues about who Red Robes is' that is meant to distract and stimulate wild theorizing. That way I suppose the author has options A, B, C, D, E etc for his Red Robes reveal.
     
  8. Majube

    Majube Order Member DLP Supporter

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    Well, with all the foreshadowing about the simulacrum it must be important and I can't quite figure what it'd fit but because it would need a soul to get out of the loop Veyers seems like the obvious candidate because on his own I think he'd be more of a lackey to Red Robe yet a simulacrum of him wouldn't have his personality/magic issues, or at least would've overcome them. I guess it depends was it on if Red Robe was coordinating the invasion even before the loop...
     
  9. fontisian

    fontisian Slug Club Member

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    It's possible that Red Robe is a simulacrum of Zach that stole Veyer's soul.
     
  10. oakes

    oakes Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    I think it's Colonel mustard in the kitchen with the candlestick.
     
  11. Random Shinobi

    Random Shinobi Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    Guys, it's unlikely that Red Robe is a simulacrum as he's apparently a high-ranking cultist when the loop starts. Also, as others have already stated, simulacrums don't have soul and are thus unable to either loop or exit the loop (in the normal way, at least).
     
  12. Glimmervoid

    Glimmervoid Professor

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    Something that occurred to me. Simulacrum bodies share soul and magic with the original but have their own mind. Zorian is training his soul partly using a spell that let's you think with your soul rather than your mind. I wonder if those could be combined to turn the Simulacrum spell into a multi-body spell. That would be a way around the problem of Simulacrum only being willing to do things you would do. You might not sacrifice your life, but you might a disposable body.
     
  13. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    A small question I have after this chapter, other than usual mysteries. What is Zorian's magnitude now? He was 8 at first then managed to get to 12, but did he managed to expand it even more? What is his limit? I would guess about 16 compared to average 24 just because doubling a natural magnitude, usually between 8-12, would work quite well as a limitation.
     
  14. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    My guess is that the bit of Zach's soul that integrated into Zorians has increased his theoretical maximum from whatever low-value it would have been originally into a more mainstream upper limit.
     
  15. Majube

    Majube Order Member DLP Supporter

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    Didn't he improve because he constantly practised in the loop?
     
  16. One

    One Second Year

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    https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ORKVLaWY-lyB6i8m87prSAevkZO4am-eyg3RBKlFPiE/edit

    That's a link to a list of Mother of Learning links the author compounded

    The specific link you are looking for in there is:

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZVanJNuiZFmywxl4Vv57vBigADLIjhgXLYF85S8deJ4/edit#gid=0

    It's not completely up-to-date, but it does keep track of his mana reserves among other things. The most reliable figure would be around magnitude 20 (Ch. 38), since the only magnitude mentioned after that was being able to shoot 35 magic missiles (Ch. 46), but Zorian himself said that it was probably due to becoming more mana efficient when it comes to mana missiles.
     
  17. Hansar

    Hansar Second Year

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    An idea I had is that mana reserves don't stop growing while in the time loop as a person's body and soul don't think they've matured yet and so keep increasing. This is how Zach can have such good shaping despite the size of his reserves, which would be around mid-twenties naturally and his shaping reflects that.

    Although Zach did say back in chapter 8 that his reserves are "as high as they're ever going to be" so it appears that there is a limit. But it's possible that being in the loop increases reserves beyond their natural levels.
     
  18. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Yes, he got better and more efficient because of that. However at one point I thought we found out that most mages have a theoretical maximum in terms of amount (not shaping skills, that Zorian has been working on) and he had expected to reach it by this point. But he hasn't? I'll look up quotes later if someone remembers that differently.

    Essentially practice makes you better, always, and your reserves grow for a while... but only to a point, a point Zorian thought he'd have reached by now but hasn't?
     
  19. Iztiak

    Iztiak Prisoner DLP Supporter

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    You're right, the maximum was stated to be roughly 4x your original, and then Zack stated that Zorian would likely not pass 40 with a lifetime of practice. I don't think he's in the 30s yet, personally, just efficient.
     
  20. GodKiller999

    GodKiller999 Squib

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    A mage mana reserve will grow to be around 4 time their base level as they practice, for Zorian that'd be 32 since he started at 8, but he has a time evaluating it because of how efficient he's gotten at using magic missile.

    Also his natural ability cost him a flat amount, so his base isn't really his true base. If empathy cost him 4 magnitude then his actual base would be 12 and his final would be 12*4 - 4 = 44 rather than 32. Plus it's like everyone is a 4x, he could be a 5x for all we know.