tl;dr It's popular but controversial and YMMV.

I don't regret reading it all.

 

While I do not, personally, have the drive or energy to make counterarguments right now, you should consider reading one of the discussions pages on TVtropes about the fiction, which explain that reasoning is not the same as an excuse, and that explaining why Zuko is doing what he is doing is not the same as justifying his actions.

For instance,

Spoiler

Later in the series, both Zuko and Iroh fully admit that the other two nations would be fully justified in absolutely destroying the fire nation.


Aang's killing of the Fire Nation wasn't the big issue, it was that he used a SPIRIT to do it. In Vathara's AU, Using a spirit to kill someone is the equivilent of a WMD, with all the consequences and implications of that acronym. He dropped a nuke when he could have just artilleried them all to death.

The author does NOT show that Fire Nation Culture is better than all others, but that it has it's ups and downs like every other culture. In most of the series, the Fire Nation may as well be Japanese Nazis, and every Fire Nation citizen is somewhat guilty of being a Japanese Nazi, too. Vathara makes an effort to make the Fire Nation more realistic, and to give a better reason for their massive aggression besides "they're just a bunch of evil murderers!"

In Vathara's work, the Fire Nation, like most societies and peoples, have been shaped and altered by massive, important events in their past. That is not an excuse, and the reasons Vathara gives in her work are not MEANT to excuse them, but to inform the reader so that they can more fully appreciate the world that the characters are living in.

You obviously lack the intelligence or the perception to understand the messages being put forth quite plainly to those of us who can judge and perceive with our intellect instead of our gut reaction.

You miss SEVERAL key points of the series, and it's plot lines, and it's characterizations, you also mis-state, over simplify, and mis-characterize several others. While I understand you are merely trying to provide a review on the work, you've shown that you are not qualified to do so in any fashion, as you do not understand it or comprehend it nearly enough to be passing judgement.

You show a desperate lack of understanding of history or sociology, two fields of study which are incredibly important to appreciating and understanding this work to it's fullest. But instead of acknowledging that, you've taken refuge in your ignorance and are now passing off your faulty judgement as justified.

Next time, try being informed about what you're passing judgement on, before you make yourself look foolish doing it.

 

Imo, WD is just mad that someone didn't like a fic he loved. Get the fuck over yourself and stop insulting someone else for disagreeing with you.

 

LOL If you read earlier in the thread, you'll notice that I state that I stopped reading the fic, because I got bored of it. I don't 'love it'. I just despise idiocy when I see it. As much as I think the fic has issues, that doesn't mean I'm just going to let some blithering idiot come on around and completely mischaracterize the work, because I know for a fact, from reading that post, that the poster has no goddamn idea what he's talking about.

I don't come to DLP so I can watch illiterate morons pass judgement on shit they are obviously severely under qualified to judge. I'll tolerate semi-literate kinda-morons, because none of us is a professional fucking literature critic, but there is a line. And it was crossed.

I don't care if someone disagrees with me, I care that a travesty of 'reviewing' a piece of literature was being perpetrated.

Stop white knighting. It's pathetic.

 

I understand the differences between reasoning and excuse. I perceive the execution of the sotry by Vathara as excusing the actions of Zuko and the Fire Nation soldiers who followed the orders by taking away their responsibility. It may not have been the goal of the author, but it is how I read it. You have the right to disagree with me, it does not change how I understand of the story.

This may be true, but by the point where I could no longer find the will to read further, this event had not happened yet.

Again, I do not see how it is different from what Zhao, a Fire Nation Admiral, did. Zhao launch the first nuke by killing the Moon. Using indirectly a spirit to destroy the ability of humans to use waterbending. In retaliation, the Avatar used the Ocean against the Fire Nation.

I agree that the use of spirits in warfare is MAD and both sides where wrong to do it. However, you can’t put the blame entirely on the Avatar and ignore Zhao’s murder that made him take such action. Let’s not forget that Iroh and Zuko are aware of Zhao’s actions.

By only blaming the Avatar, justifying, or explaining, like this one of the reason behind the mistrust against the Avatar, the author gives the moral high ground to the Fire Nation – which, as a reader, I can’t accept in this situation based on the facts.

Now, if it makes you feel better to insult my intelligence, go ahead.

 

Rep: You're a moron. Now I respect this guy, as ignorant as he is about this fic, more than I do you. THAT'S how you post a rebuttal, even though its flawed.

Spoiler

Except for the part where Zuko and Iroh both Condemn Zhao for being a power-mad tyrant who needed to be stopped, in fact, both of them acted against him and his interests, putting themselves in danger to do so.

Furthermore, as crazy and fucking-mad as what Zhao did was, it wasn't the same as what Aang did. Killing those people with the Ocean Spirit didn't just kill them. It condemned them to become angry, violent, vengeful spirits themselves. The Ocean Spirit is ALREADY fucking PISSED about The Northern Water Tribe allowing his WIFE to be KILLED. And now, on top of all that, thousands upon thousands of soldiers, whose spirits are attuned to fire, have been killed in the arctic waters far from home and denied a proper burial, BY A SPIRIT.

He's left the Vathara-verse version of nuclear fallout behind. The Water Tribe will suffer for /generations/ because of Aangs actions. Innocents will suffer and die at the hands of the spirits AANG has created. Consigning many of THEM to become vengeful spirits themselves.

All the while, AANG. IS. THE. AVATAR. And then he REFUSES to apologize or make any attempt to understand why what he did was fucking WRONG, for quite some time. He RUNS AWAY from his problems (like he constantly does in canon) and hopes something else will fix it, since he can't with his bending.

AANG's actions were reprehensible. But even the Author goes out of her way to qualify why he is the way he is, why he did what he did, and why he had trouble understanding and coming to terms with his mistakes. She takes her time to show his character growth in response to that, staying true to the world she's created.

She makes sure to point out that Aang is not a bad person. He is young, immature, lost, overwhelmed, and frankly in a terribly unfair position. He made a terrible decision, one that should haunt him, but she never paints him as the bad guy specifically. Just as a deeply flawed character, and I for one appreciate it. Because I personally found his cowardice and hypocrisy disgusting in the original series.

And this is, of course, just ONE WAY in which you've misrepresented things. Katara, Zuko, Explaining vs Justifying, the list goes on from there.

Your 'perceived' something in a fashion does not justify your ignorance. I can 'perceive' someone to be acting in a way that is incorrect, that doesn't make it okay for me to bad mouth them behind their back. Nor does it validate my acting defensive later when called out on it.

"Just because you're offended, doesn't mean you're right."

 

That's a bullshit excuse. It doesn't matter if it was the whole fic or just aspects of it, you still reacted like a raging cunt. He didn't buy something that you totally did, so he must be an idiot who just doesn't get it? Fuck that kind of logic. He's entitled to his opinion, just as much as you, and it doesn't make you any better to like something he didn't.

This is not white knighting. This me calling out an asshole when I see one. Stop being such an asshole for no reason, asshole.


tl;dr: Argue about the fic as much as you want. But prove that you're older than 5 by not immediately insulting the shit out him.

 

I do not agree with you interpretation, because I consider that you choose facts and ignore others.

Had Yue not chosen to give back the life loaned to her by the Moon spirit, the Moon would be dead. The Water Tribes would no longer exist. Waterbending would no longer be possible. The balance is definitely broken.

It’s not like the airbender who could theoretically be born again in other Nation, waterbending would be extinct, because it’s impossible to waterbend without the Moon (unless that part is different than canon).

To take your words, Aand left the equivalent of nuclear fallout; Zhao would have caused genocide. Which is worse? Which is permanent?

That is the situation Aang is in when he unleash Ocean. For him, the balance is irrevocably broken, he lash out, not knowing that the Moon may still be saved. Like always, hindsight is everything.

Did Aang do the right things? No. But there’s a valid reasoning behind his actions, even if we don’t agree with it. You can’t judge the gravity of Aang actions without taking into account the full consequences of Zhao’s.

Yet, this is exactly what many characters, including Zuko, does against the avatar in this story.

Tell me, Wise One, am I explaining or justifying Aang action? Depending on how you read it, it can be interpreted has both, depending of your perception. There’s a thin difference between explaining the reason behind someone actions and justifying them, based on your perception of the execution of the argument

This will be my last answer on this subject, because I’m obviously an ignorant illiterate moron who can’t understand the subtlety of Embers and you are too offended in your righteous fury to show me the path to Illumination.

 

So....uh.....back on topic: are there any fics focusing on the brothers from Korra that're worth a read?

 

Any fics you'd rec to someone who knows next to nothing about the series.

 

I'd just straight up rec the series, tbh. This thread prompted me to rewatch the entire show and considering I only watched it semi-frequently when it was on TV, I got to see plenty of new and nearly-forgotten material. Damn good stuff.

Other than that, I can only think of The Sorting Cat's crossover Harry Potter: The Last Avatar.

...And wow. I only just got the joke. :facepalm

 

Yeah, Sorting Cat's crossover is certainly awesome. Explanation are sufficient for anyone who hasn't even seen the series. Hell, I think I learned more about Avatar in the story than I did in the tv show.

 

This is a fair crit, as far as I'm concerned. Don't get me wrong, I like the story and all it entails. Now I'm fucking enraptured with it, really. But the first third of it is really hard to get through, and if you're already struggling with the first third, the middle section (of what's available) can be daunting. You don't want to keep reading about pussy Harry, and since he only starts to hint at being anything else by then, I can see why lots of people quit reading.

That said, if you can trudge through that part, it's pretty sweet. I'd draw a comparison between the fic and The Dresden Files. The first few books are really tough for some people to read, but after that it's pretty much all golden.

Same thing here.

 

Yeah I've read the first Dresden Files book. Nothing to keep me going really. There was nothing interesting. But I've read plenty of HP/Dresden crossover and they're amazing. So yeah. Always depends on how the initial setting is taken by the reader. Gotta have the hook!

 

Man you're missing out. Skip Fool's Moon and go straight to book three (Grave Peril). He wrote the first two books while he was still in school and the rest of the series really improves over them.

 

It's not the most accurate comparison. But the base message is the same. The beginning is tough, but it's worth the effort if you do do it.

The truth? I completely skipped the first three chapters the first time I read it. I'd heard about them enough to know I had no desire to read them. I didn't have much issue catching up with what was going on. A little here and there, but relatively smart folks like you and others shouldn't have much issue.

Really. It's worth it.

/me is now done on this particular subject.

 

Did some searching for Legend of Korra, which mostly involved trawling the tvtropes rec page. These are all the one-shots I've worked through and thought we worth sharing. Most are friendship fics.

String
"There was no better place for three orphans than in the hands of Korra, the link binding them all together and stringing them in a line, following behind the generations of family before her." post-finale Team Avatar fic.

God Bless the Child
Mako, Bolin, and Asami are in jail, waiting for Korra. Mako-centric with hints of Makorra.

Give and Take
She was the Avatar and she had given him so much, continued to give to him and his brother and girlfriend without asking for a single thing in return except for himself, and even that she had to give up for the sake of Asami's happiness and his own. Makorra with Bolin/Asami/Korra friendship thrown in.

Of Moths and Butterflies
Korra and Asami talk about this and that one night over fermented tea. Korra/Asami friendship, can be read as korrasami if you'd like.

Love Is Hard When You're Young
Written after ep. 3, what could have happened if Mako never dated Asami. Makorra.

Hard Knocks
Bolin joins the Metalbending police force. Mild Bosami.

All of the above are by slacktension who's got plenty more one-shots if you like those.

Action over Words
One perfect family, a displaced Chief of Police, a gaggle of orphans, and the Avatar. They were a mess. Lin muses over breakfast at Air Temple Island. Set after ep 7. Slight Makorra.

Daybreak
After the restoration of Republic City, Airbending Master Tenzin suggests that Avatar Korra travel the world in the ways of her predecessors.

Catch
Lin's sure she's destined to become the first master of cable-swinging. However, she'll need to learn that even she might need someone to catch her. One-shot.

the Woman Chained
Lin is Earth, and Earth has no limit. Even a warrior chained and starved and beaten can kill a man if she has brain enough to think and courage enough to try. —-Lin, with and without; spoilers for "Turning the Tides."

 

Elements of Revolution by Dragon XD

Crossover/fusion with Naruto. Rewrite of the first season of the Legend of Korra with Sasuke thrown in there. Other elements of the Naruto verse appear too. Slow updates, but long chapters, worth a read. Incomplete.