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Book 15 (Minor Plot Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by fuubar, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    Which was the whole point. Nicodemus IS afraid of Harry, so he would be highly motivated to acquire Harrys full Name and use it against him as quickly as possible in the most lethal way possible before he gets even stronger than he already is.
     
  2. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    Nicodemus already has that noose curse, thing. The 'once a year, declare that someone will die' thing? He doesn't really need Harry's name for to kill him.

    (Also, he can always summon up a horde of demons or shoot Harry in the back of the head via sniper rifle, neither of which are strategies Nick is opposed to.)
     
  3. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    We don't know for sure Iscariot's noose has that power in DF canon (unless Butcher WoG'd it).

    Edit: Yeah, the sniper rifle thing sounds like a good idea. I'm a huge fan of the Kincaid method, i.e. not taking unnecessary risks and getting the job done as fast and efficiently as possible.
     
  4. Agayek

    Agayek Dimensional Trunk DLP Supporter

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    Isn't it explicitly said in Death Masks that that's how he stays alive?

    I may be confusing it with Shezza canon though, so take it with a grain of salt.
     
  5. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Uh... it grants him immortality, immunity from death, and superior regeneration (which could just be the coin) but I'm pretty sure it doesn't grant him a "free kill" every year.
     
  6. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It is mentioned in Death Masks, but it's not a perfect solution. Someone else can sacrifice himself in the target's place, if they're willing. Harry was supposed to be the one on that altar in the airport, but Shino took his place.
     
  7. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    The only reason Nicodemus hasn't killed Harry in any of the books, or in between them, is because he really doesn't want to.
     
  8. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    That may be a truth after Death Masks when Nicodemus had other plans for Harry and gave him Lasciel's coin. But after Small Favor he is too scared of Dresden and smartly assumes that it's better to just avoid him.
     
  9. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    Yeah. I seem to recall there being some nasty Curse sent towards Harry (entropy curse it was called I think) midbook, and he manages to defend himself by activating some pre-prepared defenses in his house. Harry think its the snake guy. Later its revealed (or heavily implied atleast) that it was actually Nicodemus using the noose to send a curse to kill Harry because he managed to get away and was a threat to the plague-plan, but Shiro took the place of the curse which is how Harry survived.

    Though it should be said that the fact that Harry was able to atleast somewhat defend himself implies that there are limits to the curse. Nicodemus cannot for example use the noose to kill Mab since she would be strong enough to block the curse. Most likely its somewhere on the same level as the HWWB powered entropy curses in book 6.

    I would also speculate that once its used on you once, it cannot be used again (that is to say, Shiro made Harry permanently immune). Though thats just a guess on my part.

    There might be truth to this, but only in part. I think Nicodemus knows about Nemesis and the oncoming outsider invasion. He also knows that Harry is one of these Starborn that are powerfull figures in resisting outsiders. Nicodemus may want an apocalypse of sort, but I think he wants it on his own terms. He does not want the outsiders to win, so he is not trying to kill Harry as hard as he could try. I think its also why he is trying to recruit Harry so hard. He wants his own denarian Starborn to protect him from the outsiders.

    That being said, he also knows that there are other Starborn, so if Harry gets in the way of some important plot that Nicodemus is doing, he won't hesitate to try and kill Harry. For example, I think he would have killed Harry in Death Masks if Shiro had not intervened, since he knew Harry was in a strong position to ruin that whole Shroud of Turin scheme. Nicodemus knows that while rare, Starborn are not unique so there are others he could try to get if Harry dies.

    However once he had failed and the SoT-plague was ruined, he realised there was no more point in killing Harry just for vengeance, and tried to recruit him via Lasciels coin instead. I think this is also why he does not regularly send assassins after Harry. Because so long as Harry is not actively working against Nicodemus's interests, he remains a potential candidate for being corrupted and recruited.
     
  10. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    All true. Still, the guy's fucking awesome. :D
     
  11. Erandil

    Erandil Minister of Magic

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    A. Don´t think that a horde of Demons is enough to truly kill Dresden.. at least not one without major rituals.
    B. Didn´t this whole Sniper thing die when it was revealed that powerful wizards can see the future? It should be a lot more difficult to kill one with one of those long range surprise attacks.
     
  12. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Powerful wizards have minor precognition, but it's hard to believe that it would stop a determined assassin.
     
  13. Erandil

    Erandil Minister of Magic

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    Probably not.. but it should make sniping really difficult because that is pretty easy to evade. A bad feeling, a unconscious move and attempt averted.
    Large Area attacks like bombings etc are of course a different thing.
     
  14. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Erm... if a sniper is aiming for center of mass, like he should, then nothing short of a wizard randomly deciding to tie his shoelaces is going to save him.

    Or he could just plant an explosive under his car. Almost worked once. Would probably work eventually.

    If he's not concerned about civilian casualties, he could pull a McVeigh. Would be pretty hard to dodge that.
     
  15. Agayek

    Agayek Dimensional Trunk DLP Supporter

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    Yes. Wizardly precognition would certainly protect him from snipers. I mean, it's not like Kincaid hasn't successfully done exactly that to kill him.
     
  16. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Ebenezer or perhaps Morgan might be able to sense such an attack and react appropriately, but they are both wizards who are rather accustomed to combat and have lived for quite a bit longer than Dresden.
     
  17. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Doubt it. Maybe Rashid, though he seems to be in the business of sensing patterns rather than specific events in the future.

    You can't apply real-world logic to fiction, it'll break. Butcher's world is sturdier than Rowling's, but some things just fail. I mean, he basically admitted it through some of Kincaid's lines.

    You might be able to stop an assassin by being a recluse with powerful wards, but even then it's still easy to kill you with sufficient resources. Grab a plane and start dropping bombs. Can't imagine the kind of warding scheme that would stand up to that for long.

    Until you get to the point where flesh wounds aren't likely to kill you (Denarian, minor gods and up, etc), you're vulnerable to assassination at any moment.
     
  18. Churchey

    Churchey Supreme Mugwump

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    If you read the short story featuring Michael in side jobs, iirc, Harry took a shot from a high powered sniper.

    It broke through his shield bracelet, pierced his leather coat's mantle, and partially damaged the leather underneath the mantle.

    But Kincaid is really the only supernatural hitter who uses guns that we know of. If Harry stays on his good side, no worries.
     
  19. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    Nicodemus uses guns. And hires snipers. Tessa knows how to use them, too. Fix had a shotgun in...SF? Several other wizards have been seen with guns, too, I think, though only Eb leaps to mind. The Fae have also used guns a number of times. Mavra had her minions use them, as did Bianca and the other Reds, and the Fomorians I think used them, but don't quote me on that.

    So basically everyone. :)
     
  20. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Yeah... in this universe, wizards aren't oblivious idiots. Now that I think about it, most heavy hitters probably have some version of Harry's duster (and possible with wider range to protect the head). Which means I'm wrong, actually, they wouldn't be vulnerable to conventional assassination by snipping.

    Maybe a Marcone bullet...
     
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