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Cold Days [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Jon, Nov 25, 2012.

  1. Agayek

    Agayek Dimensional Trunk DLP Supporter

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    Sarissa is explicitly said to be Maeve's twin. Unless Mab has done some time traveling and offed her past self, that's not possible.
     
  2. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    For the sake of splitting hairs, was it actually said that they were twins, or just that their appearance was "as twins?"

    I haven't had time to go over Cold Days a second time, but I can't remember if that was actually said, or if we're just pretty sure that's the way it is.

    Because, you know. There was a point we were pretty sure Lash was the Parasite.
     
  3. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    While on Demonreach at the climax of Cold Days Harry works out that they're twins and tells them as much. They react with a simultaneous "We're not identical!" in the same tone and with the same expression. So while it's not directly stated, it's about as close to it as you're ever likely to get.
     
  4. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    And fairy or not, I'm pretty sure she wouldn't grow to adult age in less than a year.

    Harry is Mab's consort, though. I'm pretty sure that includes being her fucktoy whenever she damn well pleases. And since there's no back-up Winter Lady anymore... Who knows what'll happen in future books?
     
  5. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Or in other words, no. It's possible, but unlikely.

    It can in the Nevernever. That's why using Ways frivolously is a bad idea. That's why exploring the Nevernever with no idea of where you're going is a bad idea. It's not just because of giant talking spiders and roving monsters. Those are by far the least dangerous things about the Nevernever. The laws of physics and reality change. Gunpowder can spontaneously stop working. Gravity could get switched off, or reversed. The atmosphere could suddenly become poisonous, or water, or armadillos. And time could flow so that a thousand years might pass in the Nevernever in the span of a day on Earth, or that you could step into the wrong place in the Nevernever, and return to find that everyone you knew died of old age long, long ago.

    There's a reason why you stick to the known paths, and don't wander off from them.

    Harry had sex with Mab at one point in the past. Thus, by definition, she could be his daughter. She could be a thousand years older than him, relatively speaking, and still be his daughter.

    And I only word it that way because, as far as we know, there are no places in the Nevernever where time actually flows backwards, instead of being 'merely' distorted. If we knew that was a possibility, then he wouldn't even have to have had sex with Mab yet. In fact, Maeve and Sarissa could both be his twin daughters, who were conceived at some point in the future.

    But we don't know if that's actually possible yet.
     
  6. Celestin

    Celestin Dimensional Trunk

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    Sarissa spent a lot of time living as a human.

    Unless there is a time travel involved, which is very unlikely, she can't be Dresden's daughter.
     
  7. Joschneide

    Joschneide Groundskeeper

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    Lord Raine... you make me want to stop reading this thread.
     
  8. Lord Raine

    Lord Raine Disappeared DLP Supporter

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    Nobody said she didn't, or couldn't have. But it's also not said whether most of that happened in the Nevernever or not. You can read books on enviromental science in the Nevernever just fine.

    Is it implied that she's been living on Earth for hundreds of years? Absolutely. Is it outright said? No.

    Time distortion is very much a thing in the Nevernever. She could be his daughter. It's just highly improbable.
     
  9. Striker

    Striker What's up demons?

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    But Sarissa also told us herself that she and Mab spent weekends together in the mortal world, with Sarissa being the educator. How could Sarissa have known anything about the mortal world if she spent all her time in the Nevernever? And for that matter, where would they have found the time? Pretty much directly after the impregnation (might have) happened Harry gets shot and Mab doesn't leave his side after that until he wakes up.
     
  10. Ryuugi Shi

    Ryuugi Shi Hierarch

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    The Erlking is not a Mantle. The Erlking is Herne, and he happens to have a mantle, but the Erlking is just his title. He's also not the only one who can lead the Wild Hunt.

    No, Spirit World is also a poetic name. I can quote parts from the RPG specifically fencing Spirits off as specific, different creatures, and Jim was involved in that.

    Keep in mind, Mab and Titania aren't powered by worship. They're powered by about a million human/faerie/whatever sacrifices. Also, the Red King was peanuts compared to Mab and Titania. And wasn't really that amazing, beyond his pwn you with his will thing.

    Less power then Mab, according to Jim. As he said, there's a reason she rules the worst of the worst in Faerie.

    Two mistakes:

    1) We've seen a faerie tank iron. Mother Winter has iron teeth. Kringle is nowhere near her level.

    2) He doesn't violate thresholds. He does what Cat Sith and those tiny guys from that one short story do and is allowed in because he's being completely helpful. And besides, plenty of things can violate thresholds.
     
  11. Qazi

    Qazi Squib

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    We were told Lily wearing the "Summer Lady" mantle would eventually become "Aurora" wholly. Ergo, the "Summer Lady" mantle could properly be called "Aurora".

    I guess this is the logic Raine is using while talking about "Mab" "Kringle" and "Erlking" being the names of mantles the under being wears. Whether that being is ancient mortal woman turned Fae Mab, Odin or Herne.
     
  12. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It's basically the same thing as the Archive, in my mind. Ivy and the Archive are two separate beings, but from the outside they might as well be the same thing. Mechanically, however, there is a layer of separation between them. The whole Kringle/Odin thing backs this up because if the mantle was intrinsically part of his being then he wouldn't be able to take it off.
     
  13. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    That said, Lily was a somewhat foolish and weak-willed girl. Pretty sure Fix or one of her friends said she was barely able to take care of herself.

    Odds are Molly is going to be far better able of handling it.
     
  14. Wildfeather

    Wildfeather The Nidokaiser ~ Prestige ~

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    About Santa... Does he still give out presents? I mean it is mentioned that he is a serious bad ass in the books, but people here are saying he can violate thresholds, which hardly makes sense to me. For one, children invite Santa in every year with milk and cookies and/or their dreams. For another, Dresden has certainly never mentioned that "lil Harry got his regular presents plus the one from Kris Kringle" or in any way touched on that Christmas is operated in any way shape or form by any supernatural powers, as opposed to when he talks about how on Halloween some of the things that go bump in the night get to bump in the night a little more openly during Halloween.

    I don't know my norse mythology all that well, but I see no reason to believe that the mantle of Odin isn't just as likely to exist as the mantle of Kris Kringle/Santa Claus. Kris probably had one mantle and used it in ways that enabled him to take up a second mantle. Or he is like Mab in that he was mortal once, but whereas Mab can only manifest her "human" personality in small ways (like not harming her own daughter) Kris does not use the mantle that much, and thus retains his original personality, and the freedom to act seperate from it -albeit without using its power- to his own gain.

    Think about it this way, we know the winter and summer mantles are attracted to the nearest person who is suitable for their power (in the cases we saw, basically anyone who is a faerie or has a connection to the courts). If other mantles work the same way, then if Odin started to act like Kris Kringle and the mantle was available to be claimed, he might have been able to. The reason this normally doesn't happen is because you would need to be A: claiming a mantle that is not already associated with the mantle you already have and B: able to embody the aspects of the mantle you are claiming, which might not be possible if you do not have free will. This also explains why Santa Claus is not part of the Winter Court, you can't bring joy and happiness to children if your nature to be vicious and logical.

    We already know the power of belief shapes the Nevernever and its denizens. Mab published the Brothers Grimm to make sure her subjects were not forgotten, the Ways change based on symbolic relationships between places, etc. Why would that not also apply to mantles?

    TL: DR

    The original Odin was a human who somehow created a mantle. After fashioning the mantle, he pulled a Dresden and limited his use of "Odin-power" and retained his personality. After belief in Odin began to fade, he acted like Santa and fashioned another mantle in the name of Kris Kringle, which he also uses sparingly. Thus explaining why he can have 2 mantles at the same time and still have an individual personality not related to the mantles. He is basically the most badass actor ever and he continuously pulls a Dresden by never using the power of the mantles.

    Which also explains why no one ever gets gifts from Santa anymore, and why Odin isn't famous for being the god that conquered earth/made a kingdom here/did all these badass things on earth.
     
  15. Cteatus

    Cteatus Seventh Year

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    So this is from Jim himself. Good news I'd say.
     
  16. NobelFiction

    NobelFiction Seventh Year

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    In the begining of the book Sarissa admits that she'd spent a third of her life in Arctis Tor.
     
  17. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    A third of her life could be anything from 7ish years to 700 or above.
     
  18. Striker

    Striker What's up demons?

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    But when combined with the decades remark from Maeve, it makes it pretty much impossible for her to be Harry's son.
     
  19. redshell

    redshell Order Member

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    Unless Harry is actually the original Merlin, having been forced to perform the Darkhallow to kill He Who Walks Behind, then goes back in time because (insert name here) dies, and he doesn't want to ever be reminded of them in any way, shape, or form.
     
  20. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    He could be the original Merlin, though I'm ambivalent on whether that would be a good idea or not. There's a bunch of evidence pointing towards it, at least.

    We don't know who the original Merlin was: Bob cast him as Alec Guinness. :p
    We know he's an expert chronomancer, at least to the point where he can stretch a single ward across multiple times, at the same time.
    Harry is now the Winter Knight, and one of Winter's vassals (Kringle) is good enough with chronomancy to counteract Maeve when she was dilating time.

    Could be that since Harry is getting to know Odin/Kringle better over time that he eventually gets taught (probably in a moment of dire need) how chronomancy works and will have to go back in time to set up the Demonreach ward.

    I'd give it some pretty long odds though.
     
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