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DOTA 2

Discussion in 'Gaming and PC Discussion' started by leenK, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. fire

    fire Order Member

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    That Alliance vs Escape Game 1 for the EU quals grand finals was classic [A], and probably the best comeback they've done, behind the down-to-megacreep victory against NIP (poor Era) and of course TI3 game 5.
     
  2. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros. Moderator

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    So does anyone here play MMR still? I'm looking for advice to get better at supporting but some carries seem utterly hopeless at farming.
     
  3. SmileOfTheKill

    SmileOfTheKill Magical Amber

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    What MMR are you at?
     
  4. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros. Moderator

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    I've been hovering between 3.3 to 3.5k MMR scrub in the past few weeks after getting back into the game. Of course, I'm also a SEA scrub player, which means comparative to the rest of the world I'm probably closer to a flat 3k MMR.
     
  5. SmileOfTheKill

    SmileOfTheKill Magical Amber

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    I have a friend that is a Korean. I've watched and played in quite a few of the SEA hell games. I hate to suggest this, but you need to look at what level you are supporting at. Going hard support with a Crystal Maiden with 0 farm is going to be useless. If you play to do anything, odds are being greedy will be best. The entire warning is only do this if the games last forever, but I've seen more SEA hell games lasting forever.

    If that is the case pick super greedy heroes and just go a very supportive item build.
     
  6. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=282801741

    This guide is great for the general basics.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=211882174#206020

    This one is a lot more in depth if you are willing to read a book.

    Both of them are around 2 years old, so you are reading them for the thought processes, and to understand why they make the decisions they do.
     
  7. atlas_hugged

    atlas_hugged Fourth Year

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    At least on NA, if you're below 4k, you get more out of last hitting than letting your carry miss 3 out of 4 last hits.

    When I played support, I would give the carry 2 waves. If he hadn't gotten at least half of the creeps, I'd just last hit them myself and get rich.
     
  8. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros. Moderator

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    It's not quite as bad. Usually the carries I end up with seem to be able to last hit at least half of the creep wave, if I can zone off the enemy. The problem is that they make dumb decisions late game (like going 1 v 5, charging blind into enemy jungle when we don't have ward vision - i.e. not safe to ward -, going solo rosh when it hasnt been cleared of wards, without sod, farming jungle while clash is going on after 7 slotted, and general idiocy).
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2016
  9. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Yeah, I hate people like you.

    You make up arbitrary rules, then just ruin people's games. If you are the same MMR as that person, you are just as bad them, if in different ways. If you are playing support, support. If you want to last hit, play a core.
     
  10. atlas_hugged

    atlas_hugged Fourth Year

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    It didn't ruin people's games usually. I did it because it worked. And it let me practice last hitting more, which was also good. At my shitty mmr, any character could carry. Games were won not because of team comp but because of resource acquisition.

    So it one guy is having a bad game or whatever and can't last hit, it's fine to play selfishly yourself.
     
  11. Innomine

    Innomine Alchemist ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    And that attitude is why you remain at that MMR.

    2 waves are not enough time to make that call. You also stand to piss off your teammates, which makes the team play much less cohesively. Sure, you can definitely farm yourself up as a support, it's not too hard to find farm on the map, but doing so by taking your carry's farm is just stupid.
     
  12. atlas_hugged

    atlas_hugged Fourth Year

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    Actually, I remain at whatever MMR it was because I haven't played in a year. But I was consistently rising while I was leaving. If I reached a plateau where my attitude towards other players was holding me back, i would have adjusted eventually. But I never did.
     
  13. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros. Moderator

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    Been going with an Enchantress main these past few games with mixed results, and I'm theory-crafting on a possible jungle strat, modified from this one https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6OSXVBG7EA.

    TLDR, using enchant and with creep micro, you can stack 2 hard camps while farming a medium camp. At 5 minutes, assuming you get 4 stacks on both hard camps, you can afford a midas by flash farming with the Wildwing Ripper's Tornado. In his build, he buys courier at start of game.

    To take into account my current MMR rating, I've tweaked it a bit to be more viable.
    1) I assume I'm solo ward-bitch in game, so I buy first set of courier and ward. I give one ward to off-laner/mid and set up the safelane ward. I also buy the second set of wards at minute 7:00.

    2) I do other things in the downtime. Whereas in the original strat you go attack other camps to lower their hp, I would contest/secure runes for midlaner.

    3) I stacked 3 camps instead of 2. For Radiant, this would be the Easy Camp (near safe-lane) and a Hard Camp together, with some tree chopping from a quelling blade. For Dire, this would be the Medium Camp and Hard Camp together with tree chopping.

    4) Instead of a Midas, I go for an early Maelstrom.

    As an Enchantress, I don't really have difficulties with having levels, nor do I ever really need a level advantage to secure kills. My main problem is that I fall off hard somewhere around the 23 minute mark, because by then enemy carries have finished their second core (assuming their first core was a flash-farm item).

    Given how Impetus is no longer a UAM, Maelstrom gives me some bonus damage and more importantly, fixed on of the problems of this hero in the form of more attack speed and flash farm capability (other problems being lack of EHP to survive getting bursted down and mana regen for my 3 active and mana heavy skills). I'm hoping to be able to farm Maelstrom + Treads in this modified build within 10 minutes, then follow up by ganking aggressively/taking towers and invading the enemy jungle, freeing up my own jungle for the team "carry" to farm.

    Compared to a safelane "pro" carry timing of a Battlefury/Maelstrom + Treads "pro" timing of 11:00-15:00, I have a minute lead theoretically, which could be game winning depending on how well I manage to invade their jungle.

    Now, obviously, this is a very greedy play, but unlike traditional junglers, I'm not really going to get shut down by an invi hero leaching off my exp, as I'm doing this to flash farm. It would delay how quick I get my six, but that shouldn't matter too much as I'm going for late early-game/early mid-game dominance (and the amount of players that actually try to leech exp from junglers are abysmal at my bracket). They can't really steal that much gold from me either.

    The only real way I can think of to shut down this build is if the enemy team aggressively pushes into our jungle and has a much better early game fight potential than mine, and that relies on them having wards very deep into our jungle (again, very rare in my experience) to know what I'm trying - which they won't know from experience in all possibility. AFAIK, I'm the only idiot stupid enough to rush maelstrom on a jungle enchantress.

    My issues with the build, other than being very greedy could mean I can't really "support-carry" my team if they get steamrolled (like getting a 0-10 score while I'm jungling) and my lane presence might have made things a bit more manageable (a risk for any jungler). On the other hand, if they were bad enough to get in such a bad state without me, I probably had an unwinnable team to begin with.

    My best ganker-games with Enchantress had me giving about 4-5 kills to our carry on the enemy offlane/mid in the same amount of time, but I fall off even faster in those games having almost zero farm and being underlevelled (usually around 15 minutes into the game).

    Another issue is that Maelstrom might not be the best item to get (I could theoretically get a 4:00 minute midas with this build) or for the same amount of gold I *could* switch out maelstrom for something like a Force Staff + a Boots of Elven Skin (for Hurricane Pike), which would also be pretty darn good compared to my timings in normal games where I solo offlane and dominate 3 v 1 (and still somehow manage to lose the game).

    I'd welcome any thoughts on this build to make it better, or if I'm better off playing a typical Enchantress game.
     
  14. Josh

    Josh Second Year

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    Just to let you guys know, Swat: Aftermath formally played on Warcraft 3 Frozen throne custom games, has been rebuilt to work on the DOTA 2 Platform as Swat Reborn. I haven't played it yet, but they've completed their beta testing a little bit ago. We used to have a huge community, Ventrilo server, scheduled Nightmare level games and so on.

    You can find it here, If i could play it i certainly would in a heartbeat.

    http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=725282388
     
  15. Nerox

    Nerox High Inquisitor

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    So, TI wildcards are playing right now. Any predictions for the finals? I'd hope for OG v Liquid with Liquid taking it 3-2.
     
  16. Dark Belra

    Dark Belra Minister of Magic

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    The way most of the last events have gone, it's probably going to be a team that is very good but is underlooked because other teams have been putting out better performances. I would be very surprised if OG wins TI since everyone is going to be going through every one of their games with a fine comb to find something they can exploit. Chances are, it'll be a team that once they get far, people will be like, "oh of course they could do it! Wonder why nobody thought of them?"
     
  17. Hal

    Hal Professor

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    Did you doubt me?
    [​IMG]
     
  18. theronin

    theronin Order Member

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    EHOME vs EG g1 was one of the best games of dota ever played.
     
  19. Hal

    Hal Professor

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    First ever TI mega creep comeback!
     
  20. Dark Belra

    Dark Belra Minister of Magic

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    You come at the king you best not miss.
     
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