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DOTA 2

Discussion in 'Gaming and PC Discussion' started by leenK, Dec 9, 2011.

  1. Hawkin

    Hawkin Minister of Magic

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    ES is indeed hard to completely shut down, and a good ES will be a pain as soon as he gets a blink dagger. Lineup playing against one should try to favor 1-2 melee heroes max, and put the rest at range to reduce the chance of positioning issues and end up in a big echo slam. Additionally, proper vision (ward and sentries but also hero ability such as KotL Agh or NS Agh during day/time) will allow you to anticipate the ES initiation. I also like to play hero that can disrupt blink dagger when playing against big initiator like ES/Enigma/Mag (e.g. Spectre).

    Veno is just annoying for his slow, but lack a lot of actual fighting power if he can't land his ability. Early game, that means you can bully him out of lane to prevent him from acquiring experience. He might still get gold from his ward's last hits, but at least he'll be lower level and this will greatly reduce his damage. Heroes with high magic resistance or high mobility are what I favor against veno (e.g. AM) since they can just ignore his slow and escape or chase. Additionally, Veno lack any sort of hard control, and alone he can't stop you from TP out until he has a eul. So if a Veno blow his Q and/or his R on you, and you feel like you can't survive, a good TP home is always a solution. In teamfight, Veno is a pain. He should always be focused down early, and controlled if you can to prevent him from using his R, but barring that, delaying as much as possible is also a good option. Scrappy fight don't favor Veno either. His ultimate will only hit a limited number of player instead of the whole team. Always keep an eye out for him, and if you can engage him separately from his team, do so. It might force him to blow his ult only on you, and save your team from having to deal with it. Either way, if the ult ends up being blown you need to treat it like a race. That ult (w/ Veil) is going to destroy your team in a matter of seconds. You need to get your picks (ideally those that can interrupt your TPs) and get out. If you have healing, you might be able to stand your ground and fight (hence the popularity of KotL/Necro for the sustain they bring).
     
  2. theronin

    theronin Order Member

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    My games float around somehwere between 2-4k, and I've yet to see a game that was decided more by the "OP"-ness of heros than by whose carries failed less at farming. I feel like until you actually get good, it doesn't really matter all that much what you pick as long as the lineup doesn't require 2 maps worth of farm.
     
  3. Medfly

    Medfly First Year

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    Thank you Hawkin for the more in depth responses.

    I agree adequate farming can pretty much decide games at our bracket, I am not sure I agree with the "pick anything" line of thought. This could just be a personal thing, but I feel the draft is considerably more important this patch than previous ones. An example of this is pretty much any line up I have played in that lacked solid counter initiation has been an uphill game and more often than not a loss. This could also be a result of climbing a playing against more competent players and I am just now noticing it.
     
  4. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros.

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    3.5k scrub here. Started playing ES recently with decent winrate (hovering around 70% atm)

    Not disputing that kotl/NS aghs + wards do a lot to help anticipate large initiation, but I find you still have to pay attention to your positioning. It can be easy for people to think they're safe when they don't see an ES close to the tower and decide to clump up together to siege. All it takes is a 50 gold SoD to capitalize on that and I can't count the number of times I've gotten engagement winning echo slams off just by using them out of sight and blinking in before they realize I'm there.

    TLDR, always assume the big initiators are about to initiate at any given moment (unless you killed them/saw them farming the other side of the map with no TP).

    I don't entirely agree with this tbh. I mean sure, picking a hero you're comfortable with trumps counterpicking with a hero you suck at at my bracket, but that doesn't mean counterpicking is entirely useless. I've been on teams and been against teams where a meepo just stomped midgame and ended things because there was no AOE control, even though the gold and xp advantage was significantly against his team.
     
  5. Hawkin

    Hawkin Minister of Magic

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    Dota is such an interesting game for deciding moment such as these. While ES is a great initiator, his force lies more in counter-initiation as many other heroes. It's amazing what smoke can do, and how little they are used in lower brackets. However, I do want to point out that smoke break at 1025 range (vision) and most heroes have 1800 Day / 800 Night. Add to that the unobstructed vision from NS/KotL Agh, and they can (if aware enough) prevent you from blinking forward.

    Nonetheless, one should always keep an eye out for ES. Stay spread, and just chipped at towers or at heroes until he either revealed himself, or you have a clean kill without committing all of your heroes so you don't get echo in the face.
     
  6. Medfly

    Medfly First Year

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  7. Psychotic Cat

    Psychotic Cat Order Member

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    As the size of the observable universe is to the earth, so the size of the earth is to the violin I am playing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017
  8. Dark Belra

    Dark Belra Minister of Magic

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    Poor Man's Shield though. Gonna be rough playing Ember these days.
     
  9. Medfly

    Medfly First Year

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    Ember is probably my most played hero, so I will feel that pain thoroughly. I have very mixed feelings on the changes made to the hero. On the plus side it looks like Magic Damage Mirana may be viable again so I still have one of my two favorite heroes.

    The 3rd Rosh kill bonus was the thing that stood out to me the most, along with removing the shrines in base. High ground sieges should be infitinately easier.
     
  10. theronin

    theronin Order Member

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    Why would you play magic dmg Mirana when you can get the +Leap ASPD talent early now? That thing gives an obscene amount of damage.
     
  11. Halt

    Halt 1/3 of the Note Bros.

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    And Seasonally Adjusted MMR. What the fuck, is this LOL now?
     
  12. EsperJones

    EsperJones Death Eater

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    The randoming changes are hilarious. "Free mango for you!"

    I haven't played since before TI but I'll probably play again eventually. This patch is interesting but not sure it's the right time to come back. :)
     
  13. Medfly

    Medfly First Year

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    Due to Mirana's agi gain I still think her right click build should be strong, but a 2 second bonus? That is painfully low, if the duration was still 5-10 seconds I would be more optimistic. I could be 100% wrong in this assessment, but what is a new patch for it not testing new things?

    What leads me to wanting to mess with magic damage Mirana is the following:
    -Kaya's 10% spell amplification/cost reduction plus with Mirana's 12% spell amp talent seems like a pretty substantial damage bonus, especially when you consider her scepter as well.
    -Her right click talents are taking a bit of a hit this patch
    -I remember how powerful magic damage Mirana was in 6.88, some of that strength came from Leap's disjoint but I am hoping the talent buffs make up for that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2017