First suggestion, I hope I don't get smeared for this. I searched the site and only saw it mentioned in an intro thread.

Title: Embers
Author: Vathara
Rating: T
Genre: General/AU from mid-second season on.
DLP Category: Other Fandoms
Pairing: Pairing listed on FFnet is wrong, it's a gen fic right now, but the author seems to enjoy ship tease. All of it for hetero pairings though.
Chapters: 91
Words: 757,722
Updated: Jan 19, 2014
Published: Sep 24, 2009
Status: Complete
Summary: Dragon's fire is not so easily extinguished; when Zuko rediscovers a lost firebending technique, shifting flames can shift the world...
Link: http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5398503/

Essentially a fic, you'll either love or hate. It's a slow developing fic, focusing on politics and the various clashing cultures of the nations. Its seen through the eyes of Zuko. Which is a bit of a relief, because most fic's from Aang's prospective fail, simply because Aang is a retard. Allot of time is spent developing the universe and characters, and with correcting plot holes Vathara saw in the main series.

Pro's
-A well developed alternate universe
-A good plot and characterization
-Non-overpowering superpowers
-Decent sense of pacing, it never goes too fast, and rarely does it seem like nothing is happening.
-Original to a large extent
-LONG
Con's
-It's a love it or hate it fic
-People who are obsessed with the canon universe and characters will not like it when a character is tweaked to match the logical circumstances and effects of their culture and raising.
-Feels a bit like a shonen manga at times.
-Multiple element benders besides the Avatar. Ties into non-overpowering superpowers above.
-Use of universe themed slang that sometimes breaks flow. E.G. "Like the tiger-ox and parrot-mouse"
-LONG

In my opinion the pros outweigh the cons by a large amount for the majority of the fic.

I despise numerical scores but 4/5.

Wha chu think?



Checked by Minion, Feb. 9, 2015

 

What do I think? I think you should link to chapter 1, instead of chapter 33. I got half way through the page and was hopelessly lost before I glanced at the chapter number in the url.

 

That's borderline pro.

I found this story when chapter 4 was uploaded and have read every chapter since. I especially love how Vathara not only put serious thought into the plot and character motivations, but has also done some serious universe building. Generally speaking, the main conflict of the story is not the global level war, but the cultural barriers that exist between the different elements and their people.

Warning to anyone who hasn't read this yet and might: This story is deep. There's some serious shit going on here; between meddling spirits, confused humans, half truths and whole lies, and a whole lot of plots within plots, there is always something going on. Expect to read chapters worth of what seems like useless info that amounts to the biggest mindfuck of the story.

5/5 mofos.

 

Honestly? I hate it. I dislike what it has done to the characters of Aang and Katara, I dislike the OC's it's both made godlike and thrown into relationships with the main characters, I dislike how it's made everything Aang and the previous Avatars have done, wrong (upto and including demonizing the way Aang saved thousands of live in the North Pole, and the way he didn't let himself get taken to the Fire Nation in the first and second episodes), I hate how it's removed pretty much all of the fire nations crimes in one way or another, I hate how it drones on and on about Zuko's honor and purity, I hate how Zuko does no wrong, and I especially hate how Aang and Katara are made into mindless idiots who do not change, grow, or act logically.

I admit the writing is very good, but it's not enough to make me like it.

1/5

 

Ryuugi Shi hit it right on the money.

@OP: I think you're forgetting a few major flaws that become glaringly obstructing as the story progresses.

1. The constant apologetics for the Fire Nation and false-victimization of it. Vathara goes far far and away to make it as though the Fire Nation has never really been in the wrong and has to make up things wholesale that conflict with the series just to fit that point of view. At one point, she fricking compares the destruction of the Fire Nation navy at the end of Season One to Hiroshima and Nagasaki - the only difference being that the latter somehow got a warning and that Aang is somehow in the wrong for stopping a genocidal navy that nearly destroyed one of the universal constants of the whole world. That's an incredible load of tripe if I may say so. I trust that the problem the Hiroshima and Nagasaki comparison is glaringly obvious.

2. Incredible out of character characterization of Aang and Katara to make them seem either incredible stupid/out of touch or in the latter's case, the personality of a complete bitch. It changes Katara into a fricking mindbender at one point who manipulates people around her and can't fricking stand the Fire Nation in any way. Are we forgetting that this is the same Katara who was basically able to forgive Zuko and went out of her way to help Fire Nation commoners? And the cast seems aghast at Aang's revelation that he never had a father and the implied suggestion that he doesn't know what family means - but that flies right in the face of canon. One of the main themes of Avatar was that the Gaang basically became his family and he looked at Monk Gyatso as a father. He understands plenty about parenthood and loss, and Vathara's attempt to shortchange that isn't, to say the least, subtle. This is a painfully messy attempt to prop up the Fire Nation and Zuko by making the main cast look pathetic in comparison.

2/5 for excellent writing mechanics and aspects of her broader universe - especially the intrigue about spirits - is extremely interesting, but it loses major points on the incredibly bad characterization of Aang and Katara that is not at all keeping with canon and constant apologetics of the Fire Nation along with a whole bevy of awkwardly tacked on "backstory" that conflicts with the main canon on which this story is supposed to be a continuation of.

Before some people say that "Well, that's how she chose to make Aang and Katara and whatever" like, remember that this ISN'T AN ALTERNATE UNIVERSE fic. This is a continuation of canon from around the beginning of Season 2, so several of the main plot points, the Avatarverse world, as well as the characterizations of the cast, is taken as a given. Vathara takes that and basically mutilates it.

It's disappointing too since the Ba Sing Se segments and the story at the beginning held enormous promise, but the things I mentioned above popped up and thoroughly ruined this story for me.

 

He never actually compares it to hiroshima or nagasaki for those exact reasons, the anti-fans did, forcing him to make his own version of it. Add in that it wasn't the navy's fault that Zhou decided to do something insane. Then Aang being the bridge to the spirit world decides to summon what amounts to a dread lord to make two 40ft waves, something he's been shown to be able to do on his own. Really in doing that, he harmed the water tribe more that the fire nation would have. People who die a death by spiritual force, tend to attract allot more STRONGER spirits. Mass deaths with improper burial tend to be worse. It's a case of Aang being uncontrolled and naive enough to think that in a world where everything has consequences for someone, he could get around that. I wouldn't be surprised if when it gets back to the north pole you see what amounts to the south pole at the start of the series. Having been cut down to about 10 or so people.

The fire nation are really only absolved of blame because Kyoshi, likely being manipulated by a powerful group of spirits decided to tie their loyalty to a single person, rather than many conflicting people. What they are doing is still bad, and Zuko only looks good in comparison to the other nobles and great names. The reason people express shock that he seems to be a nice/good guy, is that most fire nation nobles tend to be sociopaths due to owing loyalty to a sociopath.

The only reason the firelord hasn't been taken out by an army of spirits, is that he likely fit's into Koh's plan, while also likely having a royal guard not unlike the Dai Li to protect him.

He supports the fire nation, only in the sense that they had a tragedy forced on them, the fire lords reaction to it however is deplorable. The only way to get rid of the threat of another uprising is to completely destroy the current power structure and go back to the old feudal system of warring lords.

He understands friends can become family but in his culture, they didn't have actual blood family. Something that is shown to be incredibly important for the water tribe. Blood is thicker than water or air and all that. You're also forgetting that this is AU from second season, from before Katara, Azula and Zuko or really anyone, got any major character development(Preventing genocide is not a real character development. It's called common sense.) Add in that he's attempting to remove the idealization from Katara and Aang, their personalities and cultures should conflict allot more than they do in the show. And that Pakku was an idiot about teaching her to control herself.

You get a sense of "Aang can do no wrong," from the main series, which kind of makes sense in it, because he's basically Jesus. In this, you have everyone being taken to their most extreme believable portrayal.


Katara is a kid trying to lead an adult life, something she's been forced to do for her entire life. When she see's Aang, she see's her ticket out of suffering. She see's someone who can finally take responsibility for her. Moreover she see's someone she can actually help. Something she hasn't been able to do for her tribe. She's also kept her wounds pent up for a LONG time to keep a strong face for her tribe.

Aang is a kid, he's trying to escape responsibility, and he really only want's to be an airbender, he refuses to understand his role as super-diplomat/Shaman means accepting everyone's culture equally. Only now, he has no way of keeping his culture alive except staying only an airbender. It's basically a catch twenty two.

I can accept that, as long as you can accept that there are decent counter points to all of your points.

 

Maybe not, but it sure as hell was their fault that they were there to butcher thousands of innocent people, commiting genocide on the Northern Water Tribe.

See, when you start killing thousands just because, you lose the right to complain when people start killing you for it.

Aang was specifically unable to take on the Fire Nation fleet in the season one finale. This fic goes on and on about hohe had so many other options, but that's this writer pull shit out of her ass to justify stuff; he really didn't. In addition, she has yet to state what his other options were.

Also, he didn't just make 40ft waves, he made 40ft waves with enough force behind them to push back dozens (hundreds?) of hundred (thousand?) ton ships.

Something she made up specifically to make Aang look bad, yes.

Which is bullshit, made up specifically to make Aang look bad, yes.

Also, Aang is rarely ever uncontrolled; he keeps his power in check very well. Notice that, despite using steel cutting water whips, gale force winds, tons of rock, and torrents of flame, he has been able to not kill a single person. I.e. Bullshit.

And the fire nation mind control, which goes back to making everything the Avatars fault, just cause.

He makes Ozai guilty, sure, but you'll notice that the fire-bending, mind control bullshit literally makes him the only one at fault.

Which is bullshit, yes. The lack of blood families should make Aang care more about his family, not less. Also, note that the blood bullshit is only really important in this fic, specifically as a Conflict Ball. Also note that Aang and Katara spent the entire first and second season developing, while Zuko acted like a dck all the way through to season three, minus one or two episodes in season two.

Also, Aang and Katara were not idealized in the show; they both had problems, flaws, growth, pitfalls, made mistakes, and learned things. Embers doesn't remove their non-existant idealization, it just throws random, senseless conflict into the work for no other reason but to make the Gaang look bad.

Were we watching the same show?

Which wouldn't be bullshit if Katara didn't basically take responsibility for the Gaang as the mother of the group. But it is bullshit, cause she totally did. Also, she helped out all over the place back home; hunting with Sokka, helping mothers give birth, and other stuff besides, I'm sure.

Aang ran away, true. Once and only once, and hundred years ago. He probably would have gone back eventually, or at least been found, but he was, you know, frozen in a block of ice for a hundred years. He tried to avoid being the Avatar for the first episode, but he serioused the fuck up by the end of that episode and stayed that way for the entire show. When people thought he was dead, and he had the option of catching the fire nation with it's pants down, he seriously considered blowing his cover just so people wouldn't lose hope because of him. In addition, he does accept everyone's culture easily; he'd done that even before the show started. The only thing he's shown not to accept is the Fire Nation's senseless genocide. And Aang has shown multiple times that he's willing to throw away his culture for the good of others.

Did you even watch the show?

 

So the proper response to invasionary forces is basically, "Nuke it?" Completely disregarding the fallout it would cause on your own side?

They hadn't started killing everyone yet. Besides the Fire Nation is bound by Laws of War. The soldier there were told to disregard them. Note that in recent chapter, the murder of Katara's mother was labeled a war crime by Zuko, because she was a civilian. Implying that attacking and killing civilians is a war crime in the fire nation. Also before you point out Gran Gran getting attacked there's a reason uniforms are typically required to wage war. Without them you can not tell who exactly is the enemy.

Maybe not summoning the god of the seas to pwn everyone. There's a reason in the Embers universe spirits are so bad. The can't sort right from wrong like a human can. They also don't let innocents flee. As shown by the plague spirit in the beginning of the series.

Which he likely could have done without the god of the seas on his side. Hell, he could have used his own strength and pulled a mass of ice at them.

Fixed. Improper burial in most cultures is considered to draw the wrath of just about everything. And to cause the spirits of the people themselves to rise up to hit you again.

Except, you know, the whole fleet of fire nation ships comprising of thousands to hundreds of thousands of people, because he decided to let the vengeful paramour of the former goddess of the moon come and control him to destroy his enemies?

Your thinking of loyalty which isn't quite mind control. More of a form of slavery, exasperated by the fact that sozin and kyoshi hunted down the healers that allowed those who betrayed their loyalty to survive. The actual mind control is probably the waters push and pull effect on emotion or the air benders "Harmonious accord"

That was a mistake by the avatar that the fire nation attempted to correct. Had they not been under the rule of the fire lord the individual clans would be at fault. Note also that the fault implied by my post are the spiritual blame. The entire fire nation will likely have to be scrubbed of soldiers, and the clan and great name system re-imposed.

Aang's never had a blood family, even in canon, the concept is entirely foreign to him. He cares about his friends, quite allot actually, but considers the familial connects to be relatively worthless by his own raising. He simply doesn't have the knowledge of how they work out.

Yet people accepted it perfectly well and even denied it when he made actual mistakes or lied for his cause. Toph is really the only one within the Gaang that has ever made a mistake that was held against her. Appa getting taken was all her fault despite being in a desert where she couldn't really see to bend.

Yes. But this isn't the show.

Yet they over look her doing things like stealing, lying, manipulating, being a bitch, etc. And she requires them to help her out of the messes she creates. A mother isn't like that, that's more of an irresponsible older sibling.

How do we know they did that, we saw gran gran helping the woman, but did we ever see her? Do they ever mention her doing that?

He accepts them, but he rarely take the chance to really understand and obey them, if he had, he wouldn't have raised such a stir in Ba Sing Se, nor would he have done so at the north pole. He also wouldn't have given his quarter to Zuko at the start of the series while meaning to go against that. Thinking that Zuko could tell he was lying.

From season one, through most of season 2, and the last half of season 3(Was taking my SAT, ASVAB, ACT, NCLEX, and ACCUPLACER's for most of the start of the 3rd season).

 

Which is better, the rules that apply to matter at hand, or the rules in a completely different item?

Come on, you aren't going to bash an AU for changing the canon universe are you? That would be ridiculous.

Would you apply say the rules of HP or Dresden canon to Shezza's Denarian trilogy? Or would you hold it to it's own internal rules?

 

In a similar way, fallout travels by the wind, not uniformly. The fallout from this event using Embers rules, is that a huge mass of people were left without proper burial, after an area was spirit scared by a great spirit.

By fire nation law, and in fact modern war laws, any group who doesn't wear a uniform is considered a threat, and it's a war crime to not do so. Also the moon died they were rendered bendingless, they could still fight with weapons.

There are no civillians in the Water tribe, all men are warriors, and all woman assist them. The same is true for the fire nation. Really Earth Kingdom is the only nation that can have claim to a substantial civilian population

Not at all see above.

Wrong the Avatar is Jesus, spirit and flesh combined. It's tempered with a human mind so it can be a proper judge of the living. Thus it is immune to the whole spirit doesn't know right from wrong, ally from enemy, because it's an amalgamate of the spirit and the lives of a thousand or so mortals. What aren't like that, are the spirits that will haunt them, because the water nation wouldn't take the proper precautions to fish out and burn the dead. Which will be exacerbated by the fact the seas there are going to be spirit scarred for a number of years. Hell look how badly the spirits took the earth kingdom stealing Appa, one of the biggest baddest sons o bitches allowed on earth was dispatched to wreck some shit. Look at the trouble the fire nation is going to have holding Ozai, because Azula took the earth king/earth sage out of his palace.

You've killed their commander, and you have the Dragon of the West on your side, mostly, eliminate however many of them it takes to get them stop momentarily, then have him call/signal a truce. A Fire Nation truce, not a Water Tribe truce. The Fire Nation, would also likely have a pull back signal a commander could send. Thinking strategically, it would have been easy, the moon also would have been restored momentarily, allowing them to better fight off the attack.

I just did.

We've never seen much of the air temples, they probably are haunted. As is the Fire Lord, but the Fire Lord has a Dai Li type force in the Fire Sages, he also has a very old dragon and a great spirit on his side. The Fire Lord is also the only one spiritually that takes the hit for the fire nation loyal. A slave is not bound by the crimes of his master.

I thought Aang didn't want to kill anyone or anything?

You are affected by it, but you still remain mostly in control of yourself. It's rare that a firebender can actually CONTROL a person like Azula. The same can be said for water bending control. The difference is that one makes you loyal and more susceptible to command, the other attempts to make you want to do exactly what they want, feel exactly what they feel, hate exactly as they hate.

Earth Bending seems to merely break you and rebuild you from the ground up. Which I guess would be a form of control.

Not sure about air.

No they are guilty of the crimes, just not spiritually guilty. Do you blame the individual citizens and soldiers of China for the human rights violations enacted by it's military and political leaders?

Fire Nation law states that, for whom so ever kills a great names family member, he shall owe a debt of blood to the great name. Aang is technically a great name, and since he doesn't know who his family is, nor who killed them, he is owed a debt of blood by the entire fire nation. THAT'S the kind of cultural thing Aang doesn't understand get about family. He doesn't care that his family was killed, the Fire Nation does. In the fic, this is reason Sozin, Azulon, and Ozai give for hunting down the Avatar. If we don't kill him, he's going to come after us, and we will lose our clans and families again. This is pure propaganda, but most of the fire nation believes it, because that is how it is for them.

I HAVE, but this isn't the show.

But did any of it have any repercussions? When I was going to a dojo regularly, if I, as a novice, attempted to fully teach another non-student, forbidden from learning there, what I knew, without telling the master what I was doing. Traditionally I would have been kicked out if not killed. That's a betrayal of the masters trust. Something allot of cultures take VERY seriously.

Haven't watched the show beyond what rare re-runs nick plays in about 4 years, I'm working from memory.

AU, has it's own rules. Their the same, but much of the background story is different.

So she's immune to the law or common senses of morality, simply because she's helping the messiah?

Don't require help from their children, and most times takes responsibility for their children. And most of all, DON'T tend to endanger their children by taking STUPID risks.

It's a hell of a drug, isn't it?

I shall go watch that episode now.

Fire Nation takes honer very seriously, Zuko thought he was capitalizing on their momentary disadvantage, seeing as his friends were on the horizon with his bison. Or that he was intending to help his friends. Not that he had given his word truly meaning to break it.

That is a splendid Idea, I'll see you in three days.

He's open to all culture in the sense that we are. We still practice our culture wherever we go. The Avatar, in universe, isn't supposed to be that, he's supposed to adapt to solve problems between the cultures, without having any cultures bias upon him. Aang's not like that, mainly because Fire Nation culture was never really expanded upon in the main series. Nor is any real culture expanded but the water tribe.

The problems ryuugi is having are from very specific incidents that really should have had consequences, but in canon didn't. You don't wreck a fleet via WMD without consequences or escalation. The only thing that is saving the NWT is that well, the fire nation troops that survived(around 5 that we've seen so far, including Zuko and Uncle)aren't evil. They also don't want to see this war escalate to that level.

It's a well written fic, it's just got features that bug some people. Kind of like how asshole!Very little character development!Harry bugged some people in the Denarian Trilogy. Really it's going to be a LONG fic, it's about 1/3 of the way into it at 300k words. Point's that bug people will likely get expanded upon in the future. I have confidence that it will retain quality. I will likely be the first to say it when it actually jumps the shark irrevocably.

 

It seems strangely self serving to quote oneself, but I find it important to point out that:

The point being, this is very much a What If story that goes beyond the constrains of the original series and then adds to it in a very different way. I guess this is the nature of fanfiction.

Honestly I didn't care to read anything in this thread past Ryuugi's first post/review. It's all just bitching and counterbitching about the virtues of canon versus fanon. Just being a DLP member, that hatchet should've been buried already.

Ryuugi, I totally understand why you hate this fic, and under almost any other circumstances I'd be agreeing with you 120%. But I like Embers because it's so different. To me, it's really refreshing.

But your points still stand. Yes, almost everyone and their ancestors is getting both victimized and demonized. However, that's almost the entire point of the story. Personalities and cultural differences that were presented in the show were taken and cranked up to 11 to highlight the need for a new kind of peace and understanding between so many different people.

This Aang doesn't understand things because he was so sheltered. Katara is so stubborn because the loss of her mother influenced her perception of right and wrong, especially in regards to family. And the only time Zuko's ever done wrong was when he sided with Azula in the caverns. Now he's just trying to get as many people as he can out alive. In fact, a giant point of contention is that Zuko no longer has the purity required to lead the Fire Nation.

P.S. Sree, stop egging them on.

 

There is so much stupid in this sentence.

Oh, no. Those doctors are healing troops. We've GOT to kill them. And those fishermen! They're providing food. Which the warriors could eat. And those children - they're going to grow someday and maybe become soldiers. We'd better treat them all like enemy combatants. Clearly, these people are not civilians.

...

What the hell is wrong with you?

 

And based off of what that has done to the Fire Nation, who have murdered hundreds of thousands (if not millions) over the last century, that means that, someday, maybe one Water Tribe guy will stub his toe, or something.

I.e. These bullshit rules aren't just bullshit, their bullshit that is inconsistent, and only hurts non-Fire Nation).

Which makes all their honor bullshit, just that. "We only kill innocents that aren't wearing uniforms...which is pretty much all of them. On other hand, we're fine with killing people in uniform."

Fucking bullshit.

Also, yeah, they could use normal weapons (which most of them didn't have)...against steel warships, tanks, and fire-benders. One-sided massacre would still be one-sided.

Once again, your fanon bullshit is bullshit and fanon. In the Southern Water Tribe, all men are warriors (which is the only way they could have an army, since they number, like one hundred people, all told. That's not stated to be how the North works. Also, female water benders are allowed to learn healing, they don't have to. They're just forbidden to be fighters.

This leaves the vast majority of the people, who do whatever he fuck they want. Which the Fire Nation still tried to Genoside.

Bullshit; see above.

Maybe you'd have ground ground to stand on if the Avatar Spirit hadn't shown the ability to protect and spare lives. You don't, though, because it has.

Look at the absolute nothing that's happened to the Fire Nation after a Century of murder.

Yeah, because Iroh is God, and would totally not go down like a bitch against the bajillion dudes the Fire Nation sent. Wait, no. Also, Iroh has shit-all authority; Ozai would say 'Fuck, no', and that would be the end of it.

Also, the entire army will fall apart because the Admiral (who did all of nothing in the entire battle) vanished, instead of giving someone a promotion.

Note also; the moon had been down for awhile by then, and the Water Tribe had basically been railroaded.

I.e. Bullshit. Hell, with Zhao gone, they're probably better off.

You sure as hell didn't.

By that logic, there is no problem. All those guys died far out at sea; no problem. The Water Tribe has the Ocean and Moon; no problem. The Avatar did it, and no one's fucking with the damn planet; no problem.

That has never been how it was. Aang doesn't like to murder, that's all. The thing about Ozai was that everyone was telling him that, even if he beats him completely, destroys the threat, and pulls him too his knees, and makes him admit defeat, he should still kill him. Aang has never been against killing when needed; he's certainly blown enough people off high buildings. He just doesn't like killing needlessly.

Only that fire-benders die if they resist that loyalty.

So, bullshit.

The thing is, if they aren't spiritually guilty, they aren't guilty at all.

I know, and it's another ce of bullshit, since no one's thought of trying to make it up to him with, I don't know, hookers and blow. Or saying they're sorry, and begging for forgiveness. They go straiht to attempting murder.

I.e. More Conflict Ball Bullshit.

Yeah, but she's specifically stated the First Season was they same, as was much of the second.

Yes! I just stated them. Read what you quoted.

Also, bullshit; no one was going to kill you. And so what? You paid to learn, you learnt, it's your knowledge to do with as you will, for better or ill, etc.

Some cultures take cows very seriously. I had steak yesterday. I am unrepentant. So fucking what?

Once upon a time, disrespecting you're parents was a death worthy trespass. So fucking what?

According to a number of religions masturbation is a sin. So fucking what?

Are you going somewhere with this shit, or what?

There's yer problem.

Yes, but the first season specifically was the same.

Pretty sure lying is not against the law nor common sense. As for stealing from pirates, that's something that's gonna get more cheers then anything.

Hahaha, oh wow. No. A mother that needs help from her children, is...just someone who needs help. You've never done chores? Also, a mother doesn't need to take responsibility for everything; kids are expected to be able to do some things for themselves.

Finally, the only risk Katara has taken worth being called stupid is taking that scroll which, nonetheless, saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives, all told.

That's just it; he didn't. He told him flat-out he'd escape as soon as he could. Zuko knew that, hence waiting with the staff. Hewas just an idiot who thought a child couldn't do.

He was wrong.

Also, for someone who takes hoseriously, he sure was thratening those children and old people.

No, he's really not. He's supposed to see things from multiple perspectives, not have no perspective.

Yeah, and that has nothing to do with them not being Avatar's, uh-huh.

Bullshit.

In your opinion.

The fic in general, for example.

Another problem; how it drones on and on and on.

They've certainly gotten worse over time, yes.

So do I; though as for my opinion of that quality...

Some might wonder why you weren't the first to say it, then.

 

The main difference being that the Denarian Trilogy is a crossover that manages to actually hold the two universes together without raping the canon of either. To say that this story rapes canon is offensive to rapists.

Also:

This is the stupidest thing I've read within the last four hours. Impressive. If you can only use a story's internal logic when dealing with it, then methods of rationality is the greatest story ever written. You need to be able to compare it against in-universe laws and in-character portrayal of the characters.

And it's already been mentioned: this isn't even an AU. It's point of divergence is in the second season.

 

Standard laws of engagement for most of the world, you attempt to resist our forces or aid our foes during an engagement, you are going to be either, restrained, or killed, as the circumstances dictate. Doesn't matter what you're wearing or who you actually are, in a battle, the actions you take as a bystander dictate whether you survive. They probably wouldn't kill the kids. Though, when you're up against things like child soldiers, you may just have to. And as we see with either Zuko or random firebender #35, at the start of the fucking series, he had a kid, Sokka, attacking him, he pushes him over the edge of the ramp and carries on to the people/threats that actually matter. Namely Kaana/Gran Gran. Whom in the fire nation would be considered a very big threat, as she likely would have been trained from the time she could walk. Or are you going to claim most of our worlds rules of engagement and active conflict are in the wrong?

Add in that, if you're going to argue canon, even in canon the fire nation didn't actually kill the civilians, as evidenced by most of the times Aang was in fire controlled earth. They separate out those who have the power to dissent(benders), and leave occupation forces there to cull any rebellion that springs up. It seemed much like the Romans style ruling of areas. Kill or capture the people currently rebelling, put down any further rebellion, install a puppet governor, carry on with conquering more land. Hell, in some cases they were better than the Romans, they didn't even kill the benders, they sent them to be restrained as prisoners of war. See Bumi's return in the metal coffin and the barge episode.

Fiat, it's already been mentioned that the author tweaks the setting so much that it can't be judged by canon backstory and rules. I mean just the addition of the Yaoren, and Kyoshi's actions, pretty much invalidates most of the canon backstory. Add in the 99 year old spirits and you have a backstory/universe more akin to warhammer than to the canon. Also add's another set of rules. Thus completely different than the canon canon universe, hence alternate.

Also, what about either canon does the Denarian Trilogy ever actually follow? I mean you've got a "good," fallen who doesn't suppress their host. You've got a completely different Harry, a completely different nearly everyone in the Harry Potter universe. You've got rules that don't make sense in either canon. IE, you've got alternate universes beyond the faewyld, of which the nether that the gatekeeper watches over is supposed to be a part of, the deepest part if I recall the books correctly. You've got a world where wand magic supposedly comes from, despite never being mentioned anywhere in the canon and this being connected to said alternate universes. You've got a Denarian Knight, nuff said. You've got wildly different magical abilities that never seem to actually interact in any believable way. The ritual that brought Voldemort back as a super-anti-jesus being the only time they ever seem to really mesh. And that seemed to have been written as two separate rituals being preformed at the same time. You've got a white council agent collaborating with a known dark magic practitioner, and even getting screwed over on the price and admitting such. More than that, you've got a protagonist who seems to be more durable than the fucking hulk even when outside his demon form, which is locked to him for some reason that's never fully explained. And a Denarian coin being melted down and the fallen remaining. You've got a Voldemort whom seems to completely differ from the Canon version of him, despite nothing having changed in his background beyond meeting the old god. Also you've got an actual hierarchy to the Denarian's power levels based on actual innate power, not relative insanity and the eldest and most skilled ruling. Seems to be more violations there than in Embers. At best it follows, Faefolk be persnickety, the Dresden Magical Mechanics, and magic comes out of wand. It changes just about everything else. It's still a VERY good read, however, it is flawed as is everything.

I'm not saying don't judge it by canon, I'm saying it has it's own rules that modify canon. So judgment must be tempered by that, otherwise you can do exactly what I just did to the Denarian Trilogy. Point out allot of flaws, I could likely think of allot more if I actually read the Denarian Trilogy again, after all, two years that have passed since I read it.


As to Ryuugi, I give up, suffice it to say, I'm through being obstinate with you, it's only making us both look bad.

Also what Sin Satori said.

 

The greatest walls of text I've seen of late.

Story is... Different, but since Avatar fanfiction generally sucks, it's one of the only choices. So I keep reading.