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Fate/Stay Night: Unlimited Blade Works

Discussion in 'Books and Anime Discussion' started by Cyclops, Nov 7, 2013.

  1. Tesla

    Tesla Auror

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    I don't think Shirou's character in the last 2 episodes made much sense. I mean Shirou's a pretty non-sensical character anyway, but still. The audience hasn't been able to get into Shirou's head the way they would need to actually undeerstand him - they should've made clearer the impact of the fire, for example. It's not really clear how Shirou arrived at the conclusion that Archer was "correct, but not right."

    Shirou and Archer have had so many conversations in the show and yet the dialogue has been so bloated and obfuscating that very little of real substance has been said. They just keep circling around the two clear points - that it's impossible to save everyone, and that it's wrong to devalue yourself - without much clarity, and the points resultantly lose their impact. There was no need for 2 episodes of conversation. If there was less talking the words would have greater impact.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2015
  2. BTT

    BTT Viol̀e͜n̛t͝ D̶e͡li͡g҉h̛t҉s̀ ~ Prestige ~

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    Hey, remember how last week ANN's reviews proved colossally retarded? Guess what? They've now up and done worse!
    https://archive.is/iAX3g

    Quoting some particularly juicy tidbits:
    I could go on but my brain is dribbling out of my ears at this point.
    For fuck's sake.
     
  3. Sauce Bauss

    Sauce Bauss Second Year ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    That's gone so far past ridiculous that it's circled right back to hilarious. I ain't even mad.
     
  4. joshuafaramir

    joshuafaramir Banned

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    Lmao, I actually went to their forums and read the reactions to their reviews. It's hilarious. Feminists are up in arms on how F/SN is the most sexist show ever because, Emiya Shirou won't let Saber fight for him because she's a girl. Lets just ignore the fact that he won't let anybody fight for him coz he's distorted and mentally ill. Oh, they even called it misogyny.

    Talk about way out of context.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2015
  5. Feoffic

    Feoffic Alchemist DLP Supporter

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    Gotta say, this hoopla has gotten me to actually start watching the second season. It'll be interesting to see if the criticism is accurate or not.
     
  6. Punt

    Punt DA Member

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    I literally can't imagine what goes into their heads when they write these reviews. I mean you've got to be a special type of moron to think that Kirei was evil as a result of being raised in a 'patriarchal institution', especially after watching Zero.

    Here's a great analysis/review of UBW if someone is interested by the way.

    Anyway, the second part of Answer seems 'meh' compared to the last episode but Shinji 'getting' the grail made it all better.
     
  7. Feoffic

    Feoffic Alchemist DLP Supporter

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    It's certainly one possibility. There are other, equally valid, ones as well, such as a lack of actual parenting by his dad, the positive reinforcement of Kirei's brokenness throughout his life, or something else entirely. The text can always be read in a different way, and each interpretation is equally valid.

    The sexism complaint has always been hanging over the VN's head. The 2006 show also had that cloud, as did Fate/Zero re: Saber. I didn't notice anything in the first half of UBW, but considering it is a fairly faithful adaptation from what I remember of the VN, I wouldn't be surprised if there was something that could be taken as being sexist/misogynist/etc. depending on the context.

    As far as the whole "beta-male" thing goes, I've found it makes a bit more sense for folks who are more versed in anime tropes than criticism if they swap out the words "beta-male" for "otaku self insert character" -- they're essentially the same when you get down to brass tacks.
     
  8. Punt

    Punt DA Member

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    The stuff with his upbringing and most importantly, his wife's death were large contributing factors to how he is but being able find enjoyment only in other people's suffering was a defect Kirei was born with. All his upbringing did was provide him with the morals of a normal person and made him want to find a reason for his existence. A different upbringing might have possibly prevented him from going around and fucking with people but he would have never been able to stop finding joy in other people's pain.

    In any case, there's a difference between "his upbringing with the church was one of the contributing factors to Kirei being evil" and "Kirei's complete inability to relate to women betrays the degree to which his upbringing in the Church, a patriarchal institution, destroyed him as a person."

    Words can be interpreted in many ways but that does not mean one can shoehorn their agenda into anything by cherrypicking.
     
  9. Feoffic

    Feoffic Alchemist DLP Supporter

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    I think the difference is a matter of degree. They both stem from the same place, it's just that the feminist reading of it places more emphasis on the impact of the male dominance of the church over just its presence in Kirei's life generally.

    That's kind of the point of literary criticism. Reading a book in a feminist, marxist, moral, etc. light emphasis different aspects of it -- the same words and symbols take on different meanings with different connotations, and words that are considered innocuous by one school of critique can be considered inflammatory by another.
     
  10. Punt

    Punt DA Member

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    My problem with it is the emphasis it places on the church 'destroying Kirei as a person' ignoring the fact the Kirei was a broken person regardless and wouldn't have been able to relate to human beings anyway. Even ignoring that, there are other events like the stuff with his wife and the events of the 4th Grail War that had far more effect in turning him into the way he is in FSN.

    I guess you're right but I still find it stupid that a feminist reading would skip the stuff with his family and his relationship with his wife and try to summarize the character in such a pointless way.
     
  11. Feoffic

    Feoffic Alchemist DLP Supporter

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    I don't think the church was actively destroying Kirei as a person, but they certainly didn't help. He was born a psychopath, but that isn't the be all end all. If someone had noticed how wrong Kirei was and got him professional help then it is entirely possible he would have been a (somewhat) functioning adult. Instead, his illness was reinforced by his father and the church they both worked for as being the "good" way to live, which laid the groundwork for what happened during the 4th Grail War.


    Every group ignores bits that others don't, not just feminist theory. It's why sticking to just one school of thought is a huge detriment to one's understanding of a work.
     
  12. Punt

    Punt DA Member

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    Yeah, his upbringing wasn't really good for him (becoming a vampire hunter as a kid couldn't have been good for his mind) but there's a lot of difference between encouraging and being the sole cause of. I found it stupid that the reviewer phrased it like the latter and most of all, didn't mention even the role his nature played.
     
  13. BTT

    BTT Viol̀e͜n̛t͝ D̶e͡li͡g҉h̛t҉s̀ ~ Prestige ~

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    Kind of a boring episode. Sort of disappointed they went with the RN mana transfer.
    Not like they needed to make the sex explicit or something.

    I'm more disappointed in the way the sex was circumvented than that there was no sex, though. I felt the need to make that clear.
     
  14. DEADSIRNAIT

    DEADSIRNAIT Second Year

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    Well, everyone saw this coming since episode 0. Because of the dolphins that Archer saw.
     
  15. fire

    fire Order Member

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    What Deen does in life, echoes to eternity.
     
  16. joshuafaramir

    joshuafaramir Banned

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    At least there were no dragons swallowing Shirou whole, or biting limbs off. For a moment there, I thought they'd really show Rin in her undies only. Dodged a bullet there ufotable. Anyhow, dolphin/ovum like things around sperm!Shirou? Hell yeah.

    Tantric ritual devolved to this.. <shakes head>
     
  17. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    They could have had a smexy scene with fade to black but I think that'd honestly be too mature for the tone of the show (the sex scenes don't really work in FSN anyway; even if you're generous to Shirou and say, "Yeah, he's earned some intimacy," he still manages to make it awkward and off). I don't know the time slot for FSN, but I imagine young teens are watching it; probably not going to fly, even in Japan.

    I think, if the aim was intimacy, they would have been better off saying it wasn't a ritual of physical intimacy in the story, but some kind of soul ritual; requires the sharing of intimate secrets or something more ornate than simple touching on a bed. That would've served the tone of the story more. In a way, they were too faithful to the source material. They should've just come up with another mechanism, because "shirts off and touching with dolphins" was just as stupid in the UBW movie as it was in this.

    Overall, I felt like this was an okay adaption of UBW. In a lot of ways, it falls flat on its face, but it got the high tension moments alright. The low tension moments didn't expand on much of anything though, so the high tension moments didn't really shine as much as they could. Rin is barely likable if you take the anime out of context.
     
  18. Wynter

    Wynter Order Member

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    Hmm... Decent episode

    Ea finally in action was fucking great.
     
  19. BTT

    BTT Viol̀e͜n̛t͝ D̶e͡li͡g҉h̛t҉s̀ ~ Prestige ~

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    Best episode of the season. That was great.
    Next episode is all epilogue, I guess.
     
  20. Lamora

    Lamora Definitely Not Batman ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    We finally found out where all the visual budget went!

    Can't wait for Heaven's Feel movie.
     
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