1. DLP Flash Christmas Competition + Writing Marathon 2024!

    Competition topic: Magical New Year!

    Marathon goal? Crank out words!

    Check the marathon thread or competition thread for details.

    Dismiss Notice
  2. Hi there, Guest

    Only registered users can really experience what DLP has to offer. Many forums are only accessible if you have an account. Why don't you register?
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Introducing for your Perusing Pleasure

    New Thread Thursday
    +
    Shit Post Sunday

    READ ME
    Dismiss Notice

Genre Chats: Political Fics

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Skeletaure, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I had the idea that we could have a series of threads where we talk about HP fanfic genres. The discussion would encompass tropes that we enjoy and dislike within these genres, plot bunnies/fic set-up within the genre, and perhaps even fic recommendations.

    Basically like the Harry/Fleur thread but for different topics.

    So let's start with political fics. Despite the large number of fics that advertise themselves as politcal, I feel like there's a distinct lack of real political fics in the fandom. Most "political fics" are just action fics with some shallow political elements, generally involving de jure inherited authority which magic enforces. That barely counts as politics IMO.

    For me, a political fic must have the following elements:

    1. Adult characters, or at the very least 7th years. Kids going around playing politics against adults and getting taken seriously is painful to read. If you do have characters who are still within Hogwarts, then I feel the focus of the fic should not be them wielding actual power but rather have more of a "revolutionary" feel to it.

    2. Relatively flat magical ability differentials. The problem with having characters whose magical power is excessive is that it removes the importance of politics. If Voldemort or Dumbledore can single-handedly hold off the entire Auror Office then they don't really need allies. Political power at its most basic is essentially the legitimate use of force. But if a character has enough force on their own then they have no need to access the Ministry's force. So I think a political fic, while it can have talented wizards, has to compress the "wizarding power curve" such that no single wizard is beyond the Ministry's power.

    3. A distinction between de jure and de facto political power. All those fics where Harry inherits seats on the Wizengamot should result in him being laughed out of the chamber. Politics isn't just about what is legally possible. The realities of power should also play an important role. A part of this distinction must be that inherited political power has significant de facto limitations. If a good number of influential and powerful wizards believe that, say, Harry is too young to exercise his legal powers and they should be held in trust until he is of age, then it seems unlikely that Harry could stop such a thing occurring. Public opinion would be against him, and you can easily see emergency legislation being written to prevent underage wizards exercising political authority - in the unlikely event that such legislation does not already exist.

    4. Complexity. In many ways point 3 is a specific example of this more general point. Constitutions, legal systems, political power etc should be complex. It should never simply be the case of "I have this legal power, therefore I can use it however I like, and when I use it everyone will respect that use."

    5. Recognition that wizarding Britain is the size of a small town and that its politics should be accordingly parochial in nature. There should be very limited checks and balances and relative informality of processes. The constitution should probably be unwritten and convention-based and there should be a considerable amount of discretion at every level of executive power. I absolutely hate it when fics give wizarding Britain a USA style system of separation of powers.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  2. Download

    Download Auror ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 6, 2014
    Messages:
    640
    Location:
    Adelaide, Australia
    High Score:
    1918
    I'm not sure I've actually seen a fic with separation of powers. Usually Fudge has the power to do a lot, controlling the legislative, judicial and executive.

    ---------- Post automerged at 00:33 ---------- Previous post was at 00:31 ----------

    I'm not sure flat magical differentials are needed. It may be possible for Dumbledore to put down every auror but is it easy or practical? Frankly it's far easier for Dumbledore to play by the rules than attempt to rule the UK with a magical iron fist.

    ---------- Post automerged at 00:37 ---------- Previous post was at 00:33 ----------

    I agree with pretty much everything else. Far too many fics just assume that Harry waltzing in and invoking "ye-olde pureblood law" will actually get him things. In a legislative, democracy can pretty much trump anything, especially with small town politics. Who cares if some old law says a Potter (or whatever pureblood house is in the secret handshake club) can veto everything?
     
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,819
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    High Score:
    13,152
    I've seen a lot of fics where the Ministry is supposed to have separation of powers but Fudge and co are corrupt and acting illegally. Harry then comes in and "cleans up" the Ministry, destroying corruption and establishing a proper separation of powers. It's just urgh.
     
  4. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Holy Moose Empire
    High Score:
    6900
    I think a lot of the problems stem from the core of fanfiction: people writing it are young and often don't research anything. Hell, I fit that category. I'm young (though "young" in the specific case of fanfiction could be said to mean mostly teenagers) and I certainly didn't bother researching politics before writing it into a fanfic. My "research" is limited to watching the West Wing, but I'm not writing about the White House.

    I also think that because of the quirky nature of HP, it's not so much about researching how stuff works in the real world, as much as developing some themes and being consistent with them. If the author knows what they're doing, they can provide their own worldbuilding and stick to it. One of the things about writing fiction is creating a credible, immersive illusion.

    Imo 15 year old Lord Potter shares the shelf with marriage contracts, i.e. it's a bad trope that resists attempts at making it workable because the fandom drove it into the ground.

    Holding authors to high standards is a good thing, but we need to keep the reality of the fandom in mind. Expecting the fandom to spawn in-depth, complex political fiction is an extremely tall order, though I could point out Renegade Cause and POTDK as examples of fics that handle their political themes very well - about as well as can be expected with fanfiction and those two are rare gems.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  5. Anarchy

    Anarchy Half-Blood Prince DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2009
    Messages:
    3,679
    Location:
    NJ
    I do have a soft spot for political fics, there's a shame there's just so few that are actually good and make sense. Pillars of Power is the best I can remember at the moment, and I know Delende Est has some going on but it's ultimately a waste in there. I also like "on the wings of a phoenix" in the sense that the battle is essentially fought with words, rather than wands, in the background. Harry ends up on the winning side without so much as casting a spell.

    I've always like the idea of Death Eaters being a political group that only took up arms once words stopped working. and that there are issues going on that Harry just doesn't know about, whether it's about the statue of secrecy, or the reasonable restriction of underage magic, or whatever. I would really like to see a good fic that incorporates the ICW as well.
     
  6. Phezh

    Phezh Squib

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    High Score:
    0
    One of the things that always annoys me about these fics is how they handle money. Just because Harry inherited a lot of Gold, he's not automatically politically or even economically powerful. You can make him as rich as you want but as long as he doesn't actually do anything with that money it just doesn't matter.

    I'd love to read a fic that focuses on actual economics and how someone like Lucius Malfoy can essentially control the Ministry not just with bribes but also with economical pressure. I'd imagine it would be relatively easy to create a monopoly for yourself in such a small society and use it to apply pressure on your political opponents.

    This can also be used in actual warfare. If you can cut off your enemy from potions supplies a future physical attack will probably hurt them a lot more because they won't have the necessary healing supplies and therefore be hit a lot harder than they usually would have been.

    The war in the books might be fought over ideals but that doesn't mean that money doesn't and shouldn't play a bigger role than it usually does in fanfics.
     
  7. Blither1

    Blither1 Disappeared

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2016
    Messages:
    10
    High Score:
    0
    Political fics- of any fandom- probably have the most extremes when it comes to quality. They're either excellent (rare) or awful (common.) I've yet to read a mediocre fic that focuses heavily on politics.

    On another note, Canon Harry would most likely either just shirk any political responsibility thrown on him due to his money/family, either by getting a proxy or just ignoring it for as long as possible. This is especially true for his earlier years- 14 yr old Lord Potter needs to not be a thing. As a teenager myself, NO-ONE my age would take on that sort of responsibility.

    In my mind at least, any political fic set in the HP universe should definitely either be post-Hogwarts, be in a very different AU, or not be about Harry and co. at all (my preferred option.) I know a lot of people refuse to read non-HarryCentric fics, but there's so much to the world that doesn't involve him. This is especially true for the first war, where there's such an opportunity to show the slow decline into corruption and intimidation, and even to show the story of how the DE went from a political party to a terrorist force. Really, the second war is the worst time to do a political fic.
     
  8. ScottPress

    ScottPress The Horny Sovereign –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    37
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    The Holy Moose Empire
    High Score:
    6900
    The biggest pitfalls of HP political fics is the Lord business, which I imagine spawned from Voldemort's title, which was then taken to be an official thing instead of probably an honorific he adopted or had bestowed on him by Death Eaters.The usual tendencies to have the protagonist pwn the bad guy followed and you have Lords everywhere.

    I'm not saying don't do it, but unless you know how to do the whole aristocracy thing, don't do it. There's plenty to work with in canon - Crouch and Scrimgeour are fertile ground for a power broker type figure. But there's a thirst in teen writers for a few cool titles when characters like Daenerys Targaryen has three hundred seventeen.

    Another observation of mine is that Lord fics tend to immediately hand Harry immense political power for someone who just stumbled into it, because the author wants to fix stuff or they want grandiose moments where enemies get smacked down and everyone is in awe of the protagonist. Problem is that politics is mostly the exact opposite of that, grandiose moments aren't a dime a dozen and they need to be properly set up if you want them to have any punch, but most times the author discards notions of logic and realism while still presenting their mediocrity as logical and "realistic". Comes down to research and impatience, really. Wanting to have All the Cool Things, when a good story is better when it has some big moments connected by a lot of lesser moments. I'm speaking from experience, I used to do all that shit.
     
  9. Phezh

    Phezh Squib

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Messages:
    6
    High Score:
    0
    I agree. I remember a fic that I read a few months ago that took place a few years after the second war when Harry came back from traveling the world and then went into politics. It was heavily inspired by 'House of Cards' and Harry was horribly OOC but the idea was fantastic.

    Unfortunately the fic followed House of Cards canon almost too closely instead of just adapting the idea behind it and incorporating it into the Hp Universe. I can't for the life of me remember what it was called, the only specifcs I recall are that it was a Harry/Daphne fic, Harry married her for her money and the whole relationship was very similar to Claire and Francis in House of Cards.

    Anyway, the idea was great but I think it would have worked a lot better with a politically inclined Tom Riddle. Make him less of a psychopath and more of a sociopath and then throw him into wizarding politics ala House of Cards.

    Edit: I found it. It's called The Star Chamber.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  10. Puzzled

    Puzzled High Inquisitor

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2014
    Messages:
    598
    I somewhat disagree, in a world where oaths can have binding consequences the idea that the government would use them makes sense. Naturally Harry shouldn't be the only one to use bylaws with very real penalty clauses or whatever, but if an author wants to use them I don't think they'd strain suspension of disbelief. It's a magical world, some things should be different.
     
  11. Darthlawyer

    Darthlawyer First Year

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2016
    Messages:
    34
    High Score:
    0
    In theory I agree but those oaths need to be sworn and I think people will place safe guards to prevent little children from wielding power. Adults can't have children with power like that they it will make them look incredibly silly and powerless.

    Most political HP fics start with a dysfunctional corrupt government and after that lord Potter takes over with one big gesture. Which can be fun to read but isn't realistic in any sense even in the magical world.

    There is not necessarily a problem with extremely powerful wizards in a political fics because that isn't not that different from the real world in some countries companies or drug lords wield more power than the government the same can happen with magical power.
     
Loading...