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Harry and Molly's Relationship

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by digitalstorm, May 9, 2013.

  1. digitalstorm

    digitalstorm Seventh Year DLP Supporter

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    The end of Cold Days signals some pretty great changes in the relationship between Harry and Molly. For years Harry has been the one in a position of authority in regards to their relationships but with Moll becoming the Winter Lady that isn't the case anymore.

    How do you see this relationship progressing in the future? Will Harry become open to the idea of entering into a romantic relationship with Molly, will that possibility diminish even more or will the status quo remain the same? Will Harry chafe at any orders she may give him? How will he feel about her becoming more and more like a Fae as time goes on? Will he do everything he can to help Molly keep her soul?

    I think that one thing is certain or at least it is in the beginning, Molly's going to be really careful in exercising any authority she has over him. She's never really been one to push Harry into things, unless I'm forgetting something, and I don't see that changing anytime soon especially as it may work to further diminish the chance she has of being together with Harry. As long as she loves him that is bound to be a concern for her.
     
  2. Clerith

    Clerith Ahegao Emperor ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    It's a fucking mess.

    Harry is still a wise mentor and the definitive boss to Molly, so despite being in a higher position of official authority, she'll probably listen to Harry - in the beginning, like you said. Once Mab and the Mantle really sink their claws into her... who knows. She's in an extremely vulnerable situation right now, so I think she could be manipulated into trying to force Harry to... well, be in love with her. Even though it doesn't work like that, she's pretty unbalanced and desperate.

    I dunno, I feel like pretty much anything could happen, really just depends on how Butcher decides to write it.
     
  3. Clerith

    Clerith Ahegao Emperor ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    -The fucking double post error is a mess-
     
  4. MattSilver

    MattSilver The Traveller

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  5. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    Molly did seem rather fond of the hand-cuffs idea. I'm just sayin'. ;)
     
  6. LittleChicago

    LittleChicago Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    There's about ten books left in the series, so they could go in a half dozen different directions before the end. My guess is that Molly's going to (slowly) change from deferential to boss-lady.

    And Harry's going to change from protective, older-brother type, to disgusted with himself, to maybe thinking why not, to almost jumping her, to pulling back at the last moment.

    Either way, I do not see things ending well for Molly. In her future, I see only violence, emotional turmoil, and two ultimate possibilities: death, or ascending to the Queenhood.
     
  7. Nauro

    Nauro Headmaster

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    Yeah, Jim, thanks for the spoilers.
     
  8. LittleChicago

    LittleChicago Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    No probl - I mean, shut up!
     
  9. Red Aviary

    Red Aviary Hogdorinclawpuff ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I prefer to have a more optimistic outlook on things. I'm hoping that Harry and Molly can find a way to subvert the nature of their mantles and get out of it. Partly because I care about them and don't want to see them corrupted indefinitely, and partly because if we're going to be so mired in the Fae for the rest of the series I think it could get boring.

    I'm not entirely sure if I like the mantle system that's been introduced yet. I could see the allure of power changing someone, but a mantle actually overwriting personalities doesn't sit well with me. I'll wait to see what Butcher does though.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2013
  10. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    One thing's certain: now that Molly is Winter Lady, we're bound to see a jump in the number of lines devoted to describing her body.

    Which was not a small number to start with.

    Hurrah!
     
  11. Idiot Rocker

    Idiot Rocker Auror

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    Yeah, as much as I want them to be a thing I feel like this will end up being just another hurdle Harry has to climb over. We've already seen that when Harry gets pushed hard enough he can make questionable choices.

    Honestly I think Jim's got the right of it re Harry and Molly. Obviously. Molly's either going to end up Queen, or dead.

    Channeling Game of Thrones a little bit in that regard actually.
     
  12. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    Well, it was implied by Mother Summer that its possible to resist if the individiual is strong enough. The way she answered Harrys question and the whole dialog kinda suggested to me that she might have foreseen Mollys fate as a possibility, and implied to Harry that BOTH could remain themselves. But will they?

    I would say that its almost certain that Harry will not be directly changed. Slightly corrupted by the lure of power maybe (normal style "corruption"), but not directly altered by the mantle. Even if we ignore the story reasons such as his ability to resist Lasciels shadow and such, we would still run into the real world problem of the fandom not wanting to read books from the pov of a serial killing rapist Harry.

    And if Harry can remain himself, then odds are he will not quit the job. The problems of his back needing the mantle, and the fact that he now knows that winter is keeping outsiders at bay further suggest he probably would not quit even if he could. He needs the mantle to be active, and he knows that with Nemesis planning an apocalypse, Winter is the best place to be to prevent it.

    Molly is a different story however. She is not a POV character so her mind being rewritten would just add torture to Harry. She has also not been through the experiences in learning to resist corruption that Harry has. On the other hand, she does have the advantage of apparently being highly skilled at mental magic, which might help.

    The possibility also exists that she will manage to escape. Odin implied that on halloween, its possible to shed a mantle without dying, and while Harry would not quit the job herself, he would happily try to arrange for Molly to quit hers I think.

    Ofcourse, I wonder if we might run into an interesting scenario where Harry figures out a way for Molly to escape her fate by releasing the mantle into someone else at Halloween. Only for Molly to refuse to do it, because she too would certainly quickly find out the true purpose of winter as WL. Maeve did imply that the loss of the Winter Lady could result in overall loss for Winter against the outsiders (which would destroy the world). If Harry probably would stick around in Winter to fight Nemesis, why would Molly, who Harry trained, not try to follow his example?

    Actually, thats another point. Even if Harry finds a way for Molly to get rid of the mantle, who would he choose to replace her? If loss of WL would mean the end of the world, then in order for Molly to stop being WL, someone else would have to be sacrificed in her place. Who?
     
  13. Gengar

    Gengar Degenerate Shrimp –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    The way the books go, I generally assume the worst case scenario will happen in every situation that arises, this issue being no exception.

    Butcher will probably get off on having Harry kill his once innocent, round eyed, adoring apprentice because she gets infected by nemesis or goes batshit crazy on her own.
     
  14. Idiot Rocker

    Idiot Rocker Auror

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    This so hard. I can just imagine Harry trying to "save" Molly from the mantle then one of two things happening. First she'd either flat out tell him no because responsibility (like you said), or second Harry would check himself mentally because it's her decision as to whether she steps down or not.

    As to your other point...I'm drawing a bit of a blank right now. I don't think there are a whole lot of Female characters who have been substantially involved with the Fae. Save for maybe Elaine IIRC. Maybe she's a contender then?

    EDIT: I don't think Butcher would have the Winter Lady infected by Nemesis twice. Mab wouldn't let it happen. Butcher has also said that he's trying to keep each book distinct in terms of style (heist, ghosts etc). I think the same can probably be said for Big Plot Points like the Winter Lady turning traitor against Reality.
     
  15. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    There's also a big difference between Maeve and Molly. Maeve could've been saved if she wanted to, but she didn't. Molly would want to be saved.

    And as you said, it's already been done.
     
  16. MattSilver

    MattSilver The Traveller

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    Speaking of things that have been done, you know what hasn't been done enough? Dresden/Molly fics. I say we either all hold Water Mage hostage until he updates Brightest Constellation or the twenty people who thumbs'd up my comment about this being THE OTP TO END ALL OTPS all start writing along with me (Or maybe at least the seven or eight people there who are the writing kind.).

    We can do this.

    We can bring forth a revolution.

    VIVA LA REVOLUTION.
     
  17. TheWiseTomato

    TheWiseTomato Prestigious Tomato ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    You have my sword.
     
  18. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    And you have my piece of crap laptop where the R and T keys don't always work.
     
  19. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    Has anyone got any thoughts on how we are to work for more Molly/Dresden, then? xD
     
  20. MattSilver

    MattSilver The Traveller

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    Simply write, my friend. More fics breed more interest - probably, hopefully, maybe, definitely! - from people reading, who see the potential and want to try their hands at it one day. And then they write and the cycle continues.

    Remember that as much as some awesome romance/smut oneshots would be cool and all, just simply having an awesome Dresden fic idea and working in the Dresden/Molly angle can be done too, and because it's a general fic that just so happens to have the pairing all casual like? It would be like how Indy!HP fics started trends with certain girls as the pairing, like Daphne and Tracey and whatever, and then branched off into other fics that weren't that Indy formula but also happened to have a side Harry/Tracey or Harry/Daphne that was actually pretty awesome. Create more and more, and since this is a more limited fandom with a fanbase of great writers like DLP's, the fics would be much shinier and awesome right away.

    So, integrating Dresden/Molly into the Dresden fic ideas hanging around somewhere isn't that hard: You wanna write a story about Dresden's next mission as a Winter Knight? Throw in some Winter Lady buddy comedy aspect and UST ensues, or do a character exploration on how badly Dresden fucked up because of the way he died, and one of the facets of fixing his mistake is repairing his friendship with Molly, and then more shit develops! Want to do an AU series after Turn Coat that disregards Changes, GS and CD because you had your own take on how things were gonna go? Do it, and throw in some Dresden/Molly without the baggage and instead a maybe more light-hearted "oh dude I shouldn't start thinking these kinda things about her, and oh shit this is awkward but then it's actually feeling right" kinda thing. Harry Potter crossover where Dresden and Potter team up to fight crime? Awkward Harrys love triangle! Wanna write your version of the Big Damn Apocalypse that's coming up? Why not some classic end of the world romance to go with it! A bunch of people have come up with Dresden/ASOIAF crossover ideas, and I remember writing down one post Cold Days where it was both Dresden and Molly in Westeros, but separated - her in the south, him in the north - and getting involved in craziness while trying to do their mission or whatever. Use that!

    Basically, you have a Dresden fic idea? Consider how a Dresden/Molly angle would no doubt improve it! Even if it starts out around the early books and has plans to go into the later ones, you can plan the OTP goodness down the road. You don't have a Dresden fic idea that could be Dresden/Molly'd? Still write it, because the fandom needs more love, but for your next one with some spare leftover ideas and awesome ones you knew would never fit in the first fic, you could totally apply to a second story that also has a Dresden/Molly angle you were consciously aware that you were gonna add in. You don't want to commit to a full blown story? That's cool, write a oneshot. Oneshots are fantastic outlets for single serve ideas, especially for pairings and stuff, and still manage to have a great "writing and posting this will breed more" aspect.

    In short, make people more aware by writing it in. Don't have to force it, but hey, at least consider it. When more and more fics come out it might snowball to having people actually think about it a bit more, and if future books in the series go down that path - or just have further complications for juicy possibilities, like GS and CD - we would've set an awesome precedent for even better writers to take from. THE REVOLUTION, my friends. THE REVOLUTION. Beat back the domination of Dresden/Marcone, Dresden/Thomas and Dresden/Murph. If people who loved the books but don't like there's only really slash fics and the occasional gem outside of crossovers discover good stories that so happen to have Dresden/Molly, and they like it, and they jump onboard THE REVOLUTION? Then our jobs are well done.

    I'm gonna sit down and belt out a little something for the Dresden WBA. Maybe self-contained, maybe open-ended, maybe a crossover, but definitely with Dresden/Molly in it.

    (THE REVOLUTION)
     
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