So now that Harry's officially Winter Knight, what changes do you think he'll undergo, physically, to his power, and otherwise?

He's already established that he won't let Mab twist his ideals or change his nature, etc, but some things are bound to change. For instance, I was re-reading Summer Knight, and Lloyd Slate has a "snowflake made of scar tissue" on his neck that Maeve uses to cause him pain and control him to an extent. While I doubt that Harry would let this happen to him, either, it bears thinking about. I also think it probable that Harry might get a bit colder, personality-wise (not in his overall morals as such but in his words and bearing), as much from Mab's influence as his own experiences. He's killed a man in cold blood. He's come from death and back. He killed his True Love, as Thomas puts it, and it's clear from Ghost Story that he's still repressing the sheer enormity of that fact; I think that when he actually does accept this, it'll change him. He's already taking the time to think things through instead of rushing in wildly.

Regarding his actual strength and power - I thought it was pretty definite that accepting the mantle of either Knight increases you in power, but to be honest, the one time we've seen Harry in action as WK, at Chichen Itza, he didn't seem to be noticeably different, power-wise. Like, he wasn't going Super Saiyan or anything, lol. I wonder how that'll unfold in Cold Days. I also wonder if his affinity with magic regarding ice or water will increase, since before this his go-to is pretty much Fuego. Although I do vaguely recall a WoJ about how Harry uses water magic all the time without even realizing it, I'll see if I can find the source..

It's also kinda fun speculating about random peripheral stuff like, will he have the ability to cool things from his touch alone, or will there be some major symbol of his office, or even, how exactly will Mab define the whole "consort to the Queens of Winter" thing :awesome The first line of Cold Days has already been confirmed to be something about Mab having strange ideas of physical therapy, which could mean a number of things, heh.

So, these are my thoughts and speculations. Yours?

 

Maybe we shouldn't have such a spoilerish title. It has been a while since release, but there still may be people who haven't read it.

On topic though, I don't think being the Winter Knight does much on the raw power side of things. Lloyd Slate didn't use magic at all while he was Winter Knight, to the point where charged at Harry with a sword and didn't try to ward himself against magic when attacked.

 

In Changes, when Harry takes on the mantle of Winter Knight, he casually out sprints Susan, who he had earlier considered a 'blur' when fighting; survived a direct hit from Ick, who had put him out of the fight with a glancing blow earlier in the book; shattered a red court vampire's back with a kick; and finally, went toe to toe with an ancient red court vampire and won resoundingly.

To say that Harry wasn't 'different' is incredibly silly.


Aside from that, we know that Harry has already received some skill in Ice evocation, though water is entirely different, from what I can tell.

 

I think the physical boost will probably be the most important in a straight up fight. Physical squishiness is pretty much the big weakness every nasty in the world uses to go up against wizards.

Magically he might wind up showing some more talent in veils, faerie magic is all about glamours and stuff. No way he'd match Molly, but enough that it could be something he's comfortable doing instead of only trying it when there's no other option.

 

I also saw that. That's the thing I don't understand. Water is a magic deterrant. It grounds any magical energies. In what way is Jim saying that Harry uses water magic all the time?

OT: Pretty much what has been said before. And I do agree that personality-wise, Harry will become a little colder. Fairies, especially winter are harsh, and act out of their nature. Living with them for some time will naturally have its affect on Harry.

 

Wasn't that simply because Slate was a plain old Vanilla Mortal though? The Knights are after all, the mortal representatives for the Faerie Courts on Earth / outside the NN, I forget which. Whereas Harry's a wizard, thus making him a better choice than x number of people, alongside whatever visions Mab has planned for Harry in the future.

As for changes to him... I wouldn't say anything significant, perhaps a touch more in terms of 'Ice' magic as shown in the finale in Changes, but, outside of that, I wouldn't say a lot, maybe some of the boosts he had during Changes big bust-up, but, nothing that will change him drastically in terms of who he is, at least.

 

IIRC, flowing water is a magical deterrent, like that stream in Grave Peril, I think. Perhaps whenever he used Ventas Servitas or Fuego, he was effecting the water particles in the air(like draining all the heat to turn a place cold from a later book)? I can't think of any other way at the moment to be using water magic without really knowing it.

 

I think the 'water magic' comment ties to Harry's use of thaumaturgy. (How many times has he described tracking spells as 'following a trickle of energy'?) It doesn't necessarily mean Harry was manipulating particles of water, but acting in a way that reflects the abilities of water.

See Codex Alera: Jim has emotional manipulation designated as fire magic, physical as earth, healing as water. I think the same basic designations may apply to the Dresdenverse.

Water is conductive, a source of life, able to hold things, transformative, dampens magic, and is capable of great destruction; it all comes down to how it's used. It's the most vesatile, if you're willing to put the time and energy into using it, not unlike thaumaturgy.

 

Neat. Sounds about as good as any theory we can derive from such a thin comment and more likely.

 

I'm sure I read a WOJ (might have been on here actually in that huge interview post a while ago) that, power wise, Harry hasn't actually grown much stonger since the series started but has instead refined his techniques. Maybe this will act as a power up.

As mentioned, physically he is now far above what he was and seems to have advantages obver certain supernatural creatures but its been a while since I read the earlier books and I can't remember the previos WK using any magic.
If I'm wrong Harry will probably get a power boost or an increased affinity for ice/water/air based magic but If i'm right I don't expect any major differences this soon. Then again, Slate was mortal and didn't have any power to nrecieve a boost to so maybe Harry will recieve a significant boost.
After all, I'm sure i read somewhere that Butcher said the case files were basically training to allow Harry to survive the BAT and more power is the only way to do that.

In short, I have no fucking clue.

 

Are you kidding me? Normally Harry's talking about running low on magic after 4 or 5 high powered spells. In Changes he was like a magical juggernaut. Maybe his power hasn't gone up - though I think it has - but he definitely can continue to cast magic for longer before he tires.

 

As Winter Knight, Harry is stronger and faster, the fight with the Ick and Arianna proves that. He would have been stomped by the Ick in the duel, Forget Arianna.

 

Wasn't he also drawing from the Ley Line during the fight with the Red Court?

 

He did once for the gigantic gravity spell, but after that he couldn't channel it any more.

 

I think what he meant was that Harry is more precise. We have Harry himself saying something along the lines of "The reason my magic works is because I shove piles of energy into it". Maybe now he can build a better framework, for lack of better words.

But I think Harry is going to get better at wordplay. That much is kinda obvious, as he isn't just going to be allowed to smack down any fae who smart-talk him into a corner. He might also be able to be better prepared - we have in-text (I think) confirmation that the Queens can control time to an extent in their own area of power. This means Harry could be able to have (potentially) months to prepare for something - look at when they go to Arctis Tor: it took less than a time for them to get there and back, yet days passed in the real world.

I also think this may be where we see just why

Spoiler

Harry is going to break ALL the rules of Magic (as Jim said he would)

. As a member of the Winter Court, the White Council wouldn't have any hold over him, and so moving against him could be a declaration of war against the WC.

Also, sponsored magic. Harry may have been top twenty for power. Now he has the Winter Well to dip into...

 

Actually, upon reading the final pages of Ghost Story, I was wondering what would happen to Harry's last Favor he owes Mab. If I remember correctly, it says in Small Favor he still owes Mab "one favor more."

Most likely, Mab will use it to try and impose her own will on how Harry works as Winter Knight.

Thoughts?

 

I think that right now Mab has him under more control than she would have using the last favor, so as long as Harry is the Winter Knight I doubt it will be mentioned. If he stops being her servant later on, she will probably remind him about it when she needs something to be done.

 

I seem to have read that the debt Harry owes Mab would be cancelled if he takes the mantle of the Winter Knight.

 

I thought Mab had, repeatedly, said that if he were to become the Winter Knight all his debts would be forgiven?

EDIT

Ninjaed by w1lliam.