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Harry Potter: the books’ strong and weak points.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Moldy, May 6, 2017.

  1. Moldy

    Moldy First Year

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    What do you like about Harry Potter? How well would you assess writing in Harry Potter? What would consider as well-written and what would consider as poorly-written?

    And hopefully, it will end the whole discussion in Is Ron an asshole thread, which is getting more and more boring.

    I will start.

    What I think is good:
    The idea that kids can go to a school where they can become wizards I find rather cute. Also, it has a feel of originality to it, since placing the action in the school for wizards that is in a castle and in modern world makes the book feel like neither a typical example of fantasy nor a typical example of urban fantasy.

    What I think is bad:
    Development of the main characters. For example: Harry has his initial judgment about situation/people turned upside down few times (e.g. Snape in the first book, Sirius in the third book, Moody in fourth book, etc.) but does he take any lesson from it and becomes more cautious and less likely to jump to conclusions? No. It is clearly shown in book sixth when he jumps to conclusions about Snape and doesn’t think that maybe he is missing some information and things are not how they seem to be again.

    None of the main characters changes considerably or feels much different at the end of the story compared to how they are at the beginning of the story. It becomes clear if you compare them to some good examples of character development in literature. Pip from Great Expectations is undoubtedly considerably different at the end of the story. Even in children literature there are books where character development is done far better, for example: The neverending story.

    Relationships

    As I have written somewhere on this forum, when it comes to interactions, which are essential of any romance, in Harry and Ginny’s case we see next to nothing, so it cannot be called a good romance when you see almost nothing.

    When it comes to Hermione and Ron, it is hard for me to imagine that the cannon Ron and Hermione would develop a healthy relationship when they didn’t change all that much throughout the books and development is not Rowling’s strongest point.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  2. Seratin

    Seratin Proudmander –§ Prestigious §– DLP Supporter

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    Well, regarding your points about relationships, you have to remember that despite the wishes of many in the fandom, Harry Potter is not a romance series.

    There was other shit going on that needed focus. It feels like we see the day to day lives of these characters and that's why it's jarring when Romance comes out of nowhere but we don't. We see plot points. Overall, romance just wasn't important enough to the plot to thicken out already large books with filler fluff.

    Also, if you don't think that people like Ron and Hermione could possibly work out as a couple I can only conclude that you have very little experience with people in adult relationships.

    Ron drives Hermione insane but he also makes her laugh. Hermione annoys the hell out of Ron but he never once indicates that he doesn't appreciate her despite this.

    Also, without this reverting into another Ron thread, he did change. Last book when he asked about the House Elves, he wasn't trying to get laid, he was concerned.

    Hermione also took several chill pills as the series went on but remained true to her core values without being an annoying mess.

    People say Harry was "Jumping to conclusions."

    If it looks like a death eater, talks like a death eater and kills Dumbledore in front of you like a death eater then it's probably a death eater.
     
  3. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Good:

    - Unique magic system that defies most of the conventions of the fantasy/urban fantasy genre.

    - Perfect balance in the worldbuilding of combining charm/whimsy with seriousness. The name "Hogwarts" is the perfect, if superficial, example. I distinctly remember, when I picked up Harry Potter for the first time back in 1999, thinking how absurd the name Hogwarts was, and wondering how I could take the story seriously. And yet it was no time at all before it seemed completely normal.

    - Great boarding school/coming of age story elements, especially in the first three books.

    - Each book having its own mystery-adventure on top of the overarching plot.

    - Strength of the supporting cast. There are so many characters who have a unique and well-defined sense to them, in terms of character voice, opinions, role in the plot, etc.

    Bad:

    - Inconsistency in some elements of the worldbuilding, especially with regards to numbers.

    - Shift in the tone of the series, and in Harry's character arc, in book 4. It started off as "the hero's journey", it became "the everyman dragged into larger events".

    - Relegation of coming of age elements to minor subplots just as the characters are, well, coming of age.

    - The story decided to depict a magical war but didn't really show much at all of that war.

    - Use of Hermione as a plot device.
     
  4. Moldy

    Moldy First Year

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    If she didn’t want to write romance or had no good idea for it, she could have dropped it altogether. What we get is not even impressing as a subplot. And she clearly tried to add romance into the story, so it is not out of place to judge how well it turned out.

    I wrote that I cannot see the canon Ron and Hermione work. However, if someone who can do character development well and interesting interactions did it, I can see it work.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  5. kira and light

    kira and light Seventh Year

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    Good: Quirky and unique world with some great ideas and infinte potential which is incredibly charming.

    - Cool supporting cast especially the adults with fun characters and good interactions.

    - Good dialougue for the most part.

    - Like Taure said, contained year adventures with a overarching plot interesting coming of age with a good mix of drama, mystery, adventure and fun especially in year 1-4.

    - Good character backdrops, with which I mean like Harrys backstory with BWL life at the Dursleys (although Jk could have toned down the abuse) and many adult characters in general who went through their character arcs in the past to make them interesting.

    Bad: Dissapointing character development especially the main cast who after life threatening situations and a war never changed much or thought about the situations which lead imo to Harry, Hermione and Ron becoming stale.

    - Uninteresting child characters in general due to the lack of development imo

    - One dimensional main villain who can't even understand the appeal of friendship, love and only wants power. I am cool with some side villains being psycho sadists like Bella.

    But Voldemort the main villain should have more nuance he can be as cruel and vicious as he wants to but atleast feel some true companionship with somebody or have a cause with which we can atleast understand from where he comes from like taking over muggles for the betterment of wizardkind but we don't agree with it or his methods.

    - Many characters come off as idiots despite the narrative claiming they are geniuses or atleast average in intelligence due to plot convenience, Rowling not thinking things through to what some events would mean in regards to certain characters. Or a change from a more childlike story to a young adult one.

    For example how downright incompetent and unfair some of the adults come off in some cases like Dumbledore giving exactly enough house points to beat Slytherin in year 1, hiring Lockhart despite knowing he is a fraud etc.

    Voldemort despite being a magical genius being arrogant to the point of stupidity, he thought it would be impossible for anyone to find the room of requirement, substandard protections for some pieces of his literal soul, taking Kreacher with him to the cave and not making sure he died etc.

    Or hundred other examples which could be avoided through some logical thinking or building excuses why someone couldn't do something which would be smarter, example creating a Horcrux requires the item to be important to you to excuse Voldemort not just throwing some rock in the ocean. But I guess Harry would never have won if his enemy was actually smart still pretty lazy writing.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  6. blizzarrrd

    blizzarrrd Fourth Year

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    The good:
    The characterisation. JKR succeeds in creating a great number of characters with distinct voices, and in making us care about them and what happens to them. Prime examples here would be Sirius' or Dumbledore's death, or Umbridge, probably one of the most hated characters in fiction.

    The world-building. I love that she didn't create a whole knew universe, where only magical people exist, but a parallel society, and how she didn't make up a completely new, fictional past but took real historical events - like the witch burnings - and incorporated them into her story and magical history.

    The overarching plot. I don't know if she planned it all out in the beginning, or if she realised later on that it could all fit together neatly, but I think it's great that things like Tom Riddle's Diary take on a whole knew meaning as the plot progresses. First the Diary was only the enemy in CoS, later it turns out it was an important event that helped Dumbledore discover the truth about the Horcruxes. I don't remember the details, because it's been so long since I read the books, but there are a few examples where something was mentioned in passing in one of the earlier books that became important later on.

    The bad:
    There are some things I wish she'd been more clear on. The Trace for example.

    Harry's development. While in PoA he showed extraordinary skill with the Patronus Charm, in the following books he failed at Occlumency and struggled a lot with nonverbal spells. Riddle was made out to be such a prodigy, it would have been nice if Harry had had a few more moments where he showed great skill.

    The last book. I read it once and never again. Just didn't like it all that much. Voldemort's whole spiel on how muggleborns stole magic from wizards... I think this was first brought up in the last book, and it just came out of nowhere. I mean sure, I can imagine someone bent on eradicating muggleborns claim such a thing to further their goals, but I just think it would have been more interesting to see a society shaped by the pure-blood believes we were already familiar with (muggleborns being 'dirty', second-class citizens not worthy of leaning magic).
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  7. kira and light

    kira and light Seventh Year

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    Good:

    - Have to second that I love that Harry Potter plays in the real world instead of a different universe it really sells the illusion that as a kid, there really just maybe could be a world out their just for special people like you waiting for your letter to arrive and it just feels magical.

    - Solid foreshadowing on some parts Hagrid mentions Sirius, diary being Horcrux, Aberforth.

    Bad :

    - JK really didn't put much effort to iron out the details to make her world really work cause under scrutiny some parts really break down like a cardhouse.

    - Spells like obliviate just have to much power with no way to regain your memories or real counters (I know breaking the mind works but you can't use it on others or yourself without becoming a vegetable), Imperio seems to be able to work in a chain with which a Imperioed person can place the spell on others with no down side.

    -Pensives and Veritaserum are not used in trials I know that memories can be tampered with but if someone as skilled as Slughorn did such a poor job theres no way that you can hide a fake one.

    Veritaserum can be blocked by Occlumency or transfigured, JK said this, which still seems fucking dumb if you think about it because if somebody admits that they did the crime you know it to be true only if they deny it do you have to investigate if they can use Occlumency or use other means to solve the crime.

    I know making magic in a consistent working setting is a hard job but JK didn't put enough counters, limits and rules in it to make it even somewhat plausible.

    - Action and duelling scenes are kinda lame with the exception of Dumbledore vs Voldemort and Mcgonagall vs Snape everybody really only uses "point and beam" spells

    - Poor foreshadowing like Deathly Hallows, Wand ownership nonsense, Molly beating Bellatrix could have not felt as much as a asspull with a throwaway comment that Molly wanted to be a professional duellist in her youth before focusing on family.

    - Romance is lame i know that the series isn't focused on it but "chest monster" speaks for itself and Ginny and Harry was rushed and sloopy despite several chances for natural interaction which wouldn't take much time.

    - Incredibly anticlimactic ending I was always aware that Harry stood no chance in a direct confrontation but the way the scene played out combined with Voldemorts basically commiting suicide due to wand ownership rules left a really bad taste in my mouth. Just don't mention the epilogue...

    Man, just writing this makes me realize just how much potential the series has and how many missed opputunitys it had imo.

    I am aware that this is JKs world and she is allowed to do what she wants, but I really was dissapointed with the way the series went after book 4, still liked 5 despite some major problems but 6 and 7 were very dissapointing despite some awesome scenes and characters like Slughorn, cave scene, Dumbledores backstory and Harrys sacrifice being impactful and heartfelt.

    I can't help but think of the series as wasted potential. I still really love the world and some characters and I think allaround it's pretty good, but it could have been fucking incredible and damn did I want to see a more heroic journey. I don't think I am the only one since HP has the largest number of Fanfics because many people wanted to see a different direction.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  8. vlad

    vlad Banned ~ Prestige ~

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    Exceptional:
    Book 5, Chapter 31

    Good:
    Book 6, Chapters 4, 7, and 9

    Bad:
    Whatever dross makes up the rest of the series.
     
  9. Atram Noctem

    Atram Noctem Auror

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    Oh boy, where do I start...

    In regards to the first four books, I really enjoyed the adventurous feel of it, with new discoveries each book, and some very interesting and captivating settings and scenes - such as Harry meeting Quirrell drinking unicorn blood in the Forbidden Forest, the Chamber of Secrets etc. Hogwarts is probably the best fictional location. Little whimsy additions like Peeves, Filch and Mrs. Norris are details that really make the HPverse seem more real and substantial.

    There's a sense that everything is possible and that magic is full of potential, which makes you want to live in this setting. Harry is, in general, a very relatable kid (at least when you read the series as a kid).

    Now, to the bad...

    The main point that bothers me is the issue of the prophecy, and Harry's fame. I think it truly made everything less interesting. Instead of having a bunch of kids who just want to solve mysteries and figure out what's going on around them, we have this pestering emphasis on the miracle of Harry's survival and Voldemort's obsession with him. Admiration, attention, and help is so thrust upon Harry that he wants to repel it, instead of try to achieve it. This is a part that actually makes him hard to relate to, despite his personality. Kids, and people in general, just don't get this status.

    Rowling's plot, while sometimes intricate and well planned, is inevitably reliant on people acting like idiots and making really stupid decisions, even when she tells us that these people are amazing smart prodigies. Sometimes it completely goes to the plot hole territory, like Lupin transforming only after they leave the Shack, or them not Stunning Pettigrew instead of binding him. Or Dumbledore not trying to talk to Sirius after his first arrest. This is the kind of plots that give way to bashing, since the readers are given two options - either to think that the characters are amazing idiots, despite what Rowling tells us and despite the rest of their actions, or that they are actively trying to do bad. There's also too much reliance on coincidences, and on characters acting OOC, like Pettigrew going to resurrect Voldemort instead of just running for hiding somewhere. The shifting tone of the series also relates to that problem, since by book 7, the events that happened in books 1 and 2 seem completely out of place.

    A similar Doylist problem is Rowling's use of exposition. She chooses to have her protagonist be unaware of so many things around him, simply so she can have another character explain it to him - but really, to the audience. Which gives way to "why isn't Harry more curious?" type frustrations, which I'm sure Rowling didn't intend.

    Things only get worse in the last three books. Rowling (or the group of shadow writers hired in her place) completely lost direction after Voldemort's resurrection. She dug him out and obviously had no idea what to do with him, since his general actions don't really fit into the boarding-school mysteries story. She wastes our time with two books that stretch over too little plot, and stupid distractions like Umbridge and Fudge, which I'm sure nobody actually wanted to read when picking up OotP. I don't think Umbridge is a good villain. A good villain supposed to frustrate and scare the protagonists, not annoy the readers and make them want to drop the book.

    Speaking of Umbridge, here we see a primary example of her usage of Strawman characters. Characters who don't really have consistent motivations or internal logic, they just exist to serve and complicate the plot. The Trace is also an example of such device, even though it's not a character. It exists solely to complicate Harry's life, and discarded entirely whenever it doesn't fit Rowling's plot. The Dursleys also fit this category. And Voldemort, though that is debatable.

    Quidditch is a useless distraction and wastes too much time, both for the readers and Harry. It's clear that by the latter books Rowling herself grew tired of it and literally made Harry uninterested in it. I honestly don't know what was the point of it, other than illustrating Harry as a really good flier, which helped him at times.

    I also agree with previous opinions that the magic seems too OP. Yet at the same time is underused, and nobody seems to realize its full potential. Once again because it just didn't fit into Rowling's plot.

    She really wanted to teach us that love and friendship triumph over evil, but what we really took from this series is that evil was defeated by coincidence. We all wanted a more competent hero, but Rowling both has a different notion of competence and a different notion of a compelling hero. She prefers to just hammer us on the head with Jesus Christ.

    The series leaves us with way too many questions that apparently Rowling never intended to answer, and probably didn't know herself - what is Dark Magic? why was Voldemort actually so evil? why are people afraid of speaking his name? why did Slytherin want to kill all muggleborns?

    Overall, the series suffers from Rowling trying to clam too many different and opposing elements into it, ending with an incoherent and unsatisfying mess.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2017
  10. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    If I am going to talk about all the different strengths and weaknesses from the books, this post will be too long so I will focus on the main issues I can issue.

    Strengths:
    World-building: she created an amazing world for everyone to immerse themselves in.
    Plot climaxes and emotional scenes: I found the climaxes in each book to be deeply touching and a lot of scenes in the books moved me a lot even on rereads even if they might not be 100% plausible
    Character dialogue: I like how the many different characters in the books all have their own language and unique set of words when conversing with other characters

    Weaknesses:
    I think there is no denying that Rowling has logic problems in the world and I remembered she said in an interview she wasn’t very good at math. Noticeable examples would be the number of Hogwarts students and how she got the age of some characters wrong. The random wandlore rules introduced in the last book is another problem as well.
    I also feel Harry’s passivity as a hero and reliance on luck and friends does not help him as a character. However, this could just be Rowling’s intention for the hero to be an average boy wizard whose main weapon is love.

    Now, in response some of the OP’s comments:
    OK people have given plenty of reasons they can have a healthy relationship such as the fact they cared deeply for each other and constantly worried for each other but you never bothered to respond to them. If you are going to say the characters didn’t change, could you at least explain why that is the case when people pointed out the changes in their characters?

    I think Rowling’s intention is to make the characters realistic because it is not very plausible for teenagers to not have relationships when they were growing into adults. As it’s a subplot, Rowling wouldn’t be spending pages and pages on it but would only give us part of the story and leave the rest for the reader to imagine. I know this style doesn't work for everyone but that's OK.
     
  11. Sey

    Sey Not Worth the Notice DLP Supporter

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    I go to Book 5, Chapter 31 and read it.

    "Trembling, she left the chamber with Anthony Goldstein, Gregory Goyle, and Daphne Greengrass."

    I should have known.
     
  12. kira and light

    kira and light Seventh Year

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    My last gripe with the series is that it build some characters up really well, but the pay off and the characterization seemed really lacklustre and inaccurate when said characters actually were in action and a weakness in the telling us but not showing department.

    Examples:

    - Mad Eye supposedly being this badass legendary auror, yet all we got from him was getting jumped by Crouch and stuffed in a trunk (with which I was ok), getting his ass handed to him by Dolohov who contrary to what some believe wasn't that good Harry and Ron got the better of him in DH and Hermione hit him with a Silencio and getting killed by Voldemort without doing one fucking useful thing by the end of the series, JK could atleast given him a moment to be as badass as she said.

    - Bellatrix was taught by Voldemort himself and is a prodigious witch (not my words but Harrys in DH) yet she has to show fuck all for this praise, she could escape Dumbledores spell in the ministry and survived longer than other Death Eaters but we are never shown if her spellwork is superior or anything impressive.

    Besides she got owned by Dumbledore in 3 seconds without him actually giving her a second thought and focusing on Voldemort and got killed by Molly.

    - Harry is exceptional in DADA but Rowling just tells us this without ever really showing what this means (yeah his Patronus was really good but it is just one spell) is he able to learn duelling spells faster, are his spells more powerful/faster?

    Everyone in the DA can pretty much use every spell Harry can use and their doesn't seem to be any level of superior power between spells like Expelliarmus and Stupefy. I know that Rowling tried to show us that he was a better duellist than most by standing longest in the Department of Mysteries but it just feels like plot armor, coincidence imo if he does have the same skillset, JK is not able to properly showcase the different level of skill between most characters (except Dumbledore,LV, Snape a few others) with every encounter felling random.

    - Voldemort being the most terrible dark lord in history, a whole society even afraid of saying his name, a monstrous appearance seems like a awesome build up, but almost everytime he is in action he really does not justify his title either through stupidity, convoluted plans, he is never allowed to cut lose the only time he really fights is against Dumbledore and he flees it just makes him look like Team Rocket on many occasions.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  13. Moldy

    Moldy First Year

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    I thought I have made myself clear even in this thread. My problem is not in their potential, because yes, they have potential. My problem lies with the writing.

    Secondly, I said that they didn’t change all that much, which is not equivalent to ‘they didn’t change’.

    As for Ron, maybe I don’t remember something as the last two books are my least favourite, but I don’t remember him to change fundamentally. For example: he wanted to be successful to show that he is not worse than his older brothers, yet he didn’t want to work heard. Basically, he wants something without the costs of getting it. I don’t remember him to realize it and, for instance, come to conclusion like this ‘yeah, learning and putting hard work to get new skills and knowledge has its value, since it makes life easier during hard times and makes you more capable of doing something and protecting what you hold dear.’ I think that war could easily make him come to such conclusion.

    I gave examples of books where character development is far superior and Pip and Ron can be compared as they both had ambitions and they both wanted to have it easy. However, Pip gets a hard slap on the face from reality that makes him go down to earth and realize that there is cost that he has to accept whether he wants it or not and that he has been building castles in the air. I don’t remember Ron to achieve such a deep level of self-reflection and admit that the problem lies within himself.

    I don’t think it would be strange if Harry was not interested in romances after the fourth book and thought that defeating Voldemort is more important. Also, I don’t agree that you can introduce romance and show very little interactions between characters, because what is romance if not interactions between two characters? Readers have full right to be disappointed if they are end up basically being told this ‘Hey guys, as you see there is a great romance going on off-stage. I hope you don’t mind.’

    Besides, Harry Potter is not a short story, so there was plenty of space for romance of the main character without making it the focus.

    Not to mention that this lack of interactions and Ginny’s sloppy characterization in the sixth book makes her look more like a trophy for the main hero rather than a fully-fledged character.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2017
  14. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    Well, I disagree and I gave plenty of examples of how much Ron did change for the better in the link below. See my response to you in the post linked below.
    https://forums.darklordpotter.net/showthread.php?p=979715#post979715

    Why is it then that when someone pointed things out to you that is contrary to your opinion you refuse to acknowledge it or respond to it?


    :confused:Yeah and none of this makes any sense at all. If Ron was so lazy why was Ron working so hard in Quidditch practices then? He also studied pretty hard for his end-of-year exams you know, ok so he didn’t do his homework as well as he could but please be honest how many teenagers does? If you want an example of him taking the initiative, how about when he was LEADING his friends in the Horcruxes quest?

    You didn’t in this thread. OK I haven’t read the books you specified here so I cannot comment and I frankly I don’t care very much. All I can comment on is what I see with regards to Ron Weasley as written in the books and the things you said about Ron like he never work to achieve his goals is plain wrong. Simple.

    A teenager has hormones you know no matter how focused they might be on other things. I also think it is a way for the characters to have their lives after the war by starting a family, etc. However, yeah, I agree I would like to see more interactions between the characters involved in a romance but you need to remember the main focus of the books is on other types of relationships like friendship, parent/child, mentor/child, etc. Romance is a subplot.

    I am not sure about this because I have heard lots of people complaining that the last four HP books were too long. Personally I would have liked Rowling to lengthen the last two books so they are as long as OotP as there are lots of scenes I would like to see as well. However, Rowling couldn’t please everyone unfortunately.

    Well to be honest I am disappointed there weren’t more scenes between Harry and Ginny’s romance in HBP as well and we were meant for them to see them as an amazing love story. However, here is what I think Rowling’s reason are for limiting the interactions between Harry and Ginny: In those scenes they were both really happy and content to be in each other company’s so there was little relevance in flashing out the details and for people who aren’t interested in the romances, they don’t want to get bogged down in the fluffy details.
    I am not necessarily agreeing with what she did, but I think it’s important to see things from that perspective.
     
  15. Moldy

    Moldy First Year

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    You are overinterpreting. I didn’t say he was doing absolutely nothing. I pointed out that he wanted to have it easy and lacked the self-reflection to realize it.

    Which of you your points are examples of fundamental change?

    As for him treating elves better, it is a nice improvment, but how is that a fundamental change for someone who undergoes the experience of war?

    I admit that the destruction of the locket does look like a light in the tunnel and the end of Ron’s self-esteem issues, however only until you read this: "He needs to work on his self-esteem issues." from no other than Rowling herself. If someone had any illusions that she envisioned Ron as a confident character after the war, this sentence crushes it. As a Ron fan you are probably better off looking for some fanfiction writer that can do character development and does not see Ron as someone who has so big self-esteem issues after the war that he and Hermione would need marriage counseling.
     
  16. torrent56

    torrent56 Second Year

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    Very interesting. I didn't know we have to go back to the same issues that we discussed before in the Ron * Hermione thread last year.

    No I am not. You were saying he wants to be successful like becoming Head Boy and Quidditch Captain according to the vision from the Mirror of Erised in PS. I pointed out he worked quite hard to become a better Quidditch Player which contradicts what you said. I can also say he wants to be an Auror and he worked pretty hard to get required OWL results and he was successful in entering the required NEWT classes wasn’t he?

    Maybe the fact he took the initiative and LEAD his friends in the Horcruxes quest while Harry abandoned it is a fundamental change, stabbing the locket Horcrux like you said, changing his own view on the elves among other examples?

    I see. You just rely on Rowling’s quotes when they suit you but CC which was written by Rowling herself actually meant less than an interview taken out of context (which like I said in another thread most casual readers wouldn't even know about). Why are you complaining about H/G in this thread when Rowling proclaimed their true love and they are soulmates then :rolleyes:?

    Even if a person supposedly has self-esteem issues it does not mean he couldn’t take steps to address them and prevent it from impacting on his life. In Ron's case, I think it was a smart move for Ron to leave the Ministry and the Auror Department (which is broken and corrupt anyway) and join up with George in managing the joke shop. In this way, he wouldn’t have to deal with the comparison of his achievements to his friends and he can bring home tons of money and he can also support Hermione’s career in the Ministry by doing more than his fair share of caring for their children. There, problem solved.

    Do you realise you might just have taken Rowling’s words a bit too seriously (whilst hypocritically ignoring all the pro-Romione interview material out there I might add) just like Watson said afterwards?

    But anyway, wow what a big deal it is to have some self-esteem issues (which you obviously feel the need to exaggerate)! All I need to see is there are no evidence to show Ron is ever jealous or resentful of Hermione’s successes so I fail to see how it could impact their marriage, contrary to all those delusional fanfiction authors who make Ron OCC and claimed he was undermining Hermione's career to make himself feel better. Even if Ron lived in Harry’s shadow for a while, why do I care? He wasn’t marrying Harry.

    What’s the problem with marriage counselling even if it is necessary (and CC certainly doesn’t support it) considering lots of couples need to go through it?

    Unless you have some solid evidence showing Ron doesn't like Hermione to pursue her career or why it will cause their marriage irreparable damage I see no reason to discuss it any further.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2017
  17. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    That's working out well then.

    Anyway. Good points!

    The strong streak of humour throughout the books. Right from the start, but even more so as they go on, Harry's a sarcastic little arsehole, with Ron right behind him. Hermione has her moments too, and there's always Dumbledore's dry, sometimes scathing wit.
    Thrilling set pieces. Some fanfiction might make the magic a bit more inventive, but each book has at least one fantastic set piece. Even Half Blood Prince.
    Some outstanding characters. Snape might be a world class bastard not deserving of the adoration he gets from fandom, but he's compelling. Same for Dumbledore, who might be the best Obi-Wan figure of anything written in my life-time. Harry is a flawed, frustrating protagonist, but even when you're yelling at him for being so stupid you're invested.
    Excellent setting. Let's face it, we all want to go to Hogwarts, or spend a day...or week...or year wandering around Diagon Alley.
    Good plots (mostly). More so in the first half of the series, but there's no one book that is completely poor in this regard.

    The bad.
    Sloppy detail work. Some of it's inevitable, part and parcel of writing a series somewhat unexpectedly. Other bits, not so much. There are bits of Deathly Hallows that contradict things said earlier in the book, never mind things said in Philosophers Stone.
    Weak villains. Weak in terms of characterisation, I mean. Umbridge is loathsome, but there's not much depth to her in canon. Same for Voldemort - there's some nuance introduced with the glimpses of his past in HBP, but overall he's a pretty one-dimensional monster.
    The drawn out doorstoppers mid-series (Deathly Hallows is actually comparatively brief, although some of it could easily have been trimmed).
    Disappointing ending - thematically appropriate, perhaps, but ultimately it boils down to Harry monologuing Voldemort to death.
    Lacklustre romance - it might have been better to cut it out completely rather than have the bare bones we do get. Although fair's fair, I do quite like what she wrote; it just feels like a bit of an afterthought.
     
  18. Idiot Rocker

    Idiot Rocker Auror

    Joined:
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    Lots of great points made here. I was listening to Writing Excuses a while back (season 9? Yeah, that far back) and they mentioned Harry Potter. It's not my idea mind, but I'll put it out there for the good category.

    Time.

    Not time turners, but how Rowling effectively manages to make a one year equal one book approach work. It's a testament to her efficiency in how she moves us along from year end to year close. Most fanfiction writers who tackle the year-book structure barely make it past the first set of exams. There's good reason for that.

    Maintaing attention and interest is hard. Certain authors, like Jim Butcher, take an approach of condensing within a short period in order to self-generate momentum. Web Serial authors like Wildbow follow a similar approach. Rowling goes the opposite route with what, at times, seems like a 1:1 approach.

    It's something of a miracle that it works as well as it does.

    If anything this highlights her difficulties with series pacing versus book pacing. Rowling knows how to write an interesting novel (see Prisoner of Azkaban). Her problem comes in connecting them when her narrative has outgrown the book-year approach.
     
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