I think his point was more that the shounen manga Gabe writes for feature shallow characters and plot, not that it's a trait of the entire genre.

 

And my point is that the author could have easily fleshed those same characters and plots. But instead of doing it, he maintains their characters with next to no growth. Take his Shirou from the beginning of the story to his current position and he probably reads about as uninteresting and dry as he did back then.

 

Despite all my criticism in past chapters, In Flight was still one of my favorite fics and seeing an update was like getting a second Christmas to me. I was so busy yesterday I didn't have a chance to read it until this morning, but spent the whole day pumping myself up for it.

And then I got this.

The whole story is full of potential that GB builds up well, then just fails to write the climax. But nonetheless, it was still enjoyable - the thing that annoyed me was the potential to be a lot more.

So far, I disliked his crappy characters, but also wrote the Sekirei characters off as being too true to canon, trying to write too many characters at once (with Shirou just being because GB seems to be in love with him too much, and unable to write any flaws at all). But here he had two characters to write - Saber and Rin. Only two. And to be honest, they have such strong and obvious personalities in canon, it's not like he needs to be particularly imaginative to give them personality.

Apparently I was wrong.

Rin was a completely dull interpretation. The only thing that could make it interesting would be if Shirou's analysis about Rin's magus nature is spot on, and she's actually putting on a facade while carefully and ruthless observing the situation. Though I doubt GB's ability to pull it off.

Saber. Whoa. I was utterly shocked. From last chapter's "Indeed Shirou" I was a bit nervous. And this chapter proved that worry was spot on. She just follows Rin's rants with a token Saber comment like "Indeed. That is most unchivalrous" or "Such a thing". If he couldn't come up with anything meaningful for her to say, she could have just stayed quiet - it would have suited her fine. She's not a character like Kuu who can be written off with a few token phrases. The fuck. This really pissed me off. It got a bit better later in the chapter, but that start was horrid.

There's also a complete non-reaction from either of them in regards to how carelessly Shirou has been sharing information about them. Surely a Servant would be somewhat irked that their identity has been told to complete strangers. Or a Magus being annoyed that magecraft has been carelessly revealed.

The other thing that pissed me off? The entire series Shirou is largely unphased by just about anything in the Sekirei plan. We're told about his experiences meeting characters like Berserker completely overshadowing any sort of fear a Sekirei could put him through. We're told about him being battle ready at all times - even in situations that seem harmless. And we're told how much weaker he is compared to Saber and Rin. Here we have a first rate magus and a fucking heroic spirit in a room full of "demons/monsters" - and Miya not only manages to hit them with a ladle, but shocks Rin with her Hannya mask. Miya's admonishment should have been grounds for them to go into full battle mode, Invisible Air active and a spell ready to fire. A battle hardened pair that are on edge being *attacked* by a non-human entity. It could have been a good scene - not only would the situation escalate, but Miya would realize she can't cow these two the way she would other Sekirei. Instead of breaking the tension, it should have done the opposite and put the both of them on edge! Something as small as that will COMPLETELY change their role for the rest of the fic.

I've been waiting for this scene the whole series, and I am complete let down. We had potential for it to be so much more. With how Shirou has been talking about how ridiculous powerful heroic spirits are, and how ruthless magi are, a good introduction scene would have been something that would show off these traits somehow. So far, if I was his Sekirei, I'd have been pretty underwhelmed.

What annoys me more is knowing that the rest of the book, we're going to have this in our face the whole time. At least his fight scenes are interesting and I will be looking forward to how he writes Rin and Saber in battle.

 

BUT MIYAS MASK IS FUNNY!!!!1111

Seriously though, I thought of the same omake. Odds are since that it is the only proper response to this setting.

Three paragraphs of a substandard omake made in two minutes and then one line of wish fulfillment. Good stuff.

 

Honestly, I just don't think there's a place for Rin/Saber in this story. There's already way too much going on. The shallowness of the Sekirei harem makes it even worse; now other character have to be written so that they're in line with Musubi etc, and it just means that you end up with a bloated and totally uninteresting cast of characters that constantly increases. I mean, fuck, there was essentially no difference between how Tsukiumi and Rin were written in that last chapter, which is just abysmal.

Frankly, I kind of wish he'd stop writing this and work on a series of shorter (!!!!!) projects instead, which he always does better. GB's great strength is that he always comes up with fascinating premises, which are often enough - all by themselves - to get you through a good 100,000 words. Occasionally he also backs this up with good characterisation, plot and prose - but seemingly only on shorter stuff. Debt of a Sword was really almost a perfect story - the premise was fantastic, the pace was great (very unusual), the main characters actually had depth. I just don't understand why he can't fit that into a larger story. Perhaps it's because both his larger stories have had huge harem elements - which, honestly, just always take away from a story - but even then, Honor Thy Masters was much better at managing that, though it was still flawed. He seems to really struggle with being inventive comedically and managing large casts of characters, but he insists on trying to both those things in his stories. Seriously, he needs to just play to his strengths and gradually work on his weaknesses. If he did that, there would be no 'In Flight's and a whole lot more 'Debt of a Sword's.

 

Why are people surprised by any of this?

a) characters lack depth? No shit. It's a harem fic. To say nothing of the objectifying of women as a gender (look at me! I'm one of the ones normally rolling my eyes at feminists), you can't flesh out that many characters to a satisfying degree without an obscene amount of words, despite the ridiculousness of a harem in anywhere other than hentai.

b) the length? This guy lives to info dump. It was the same in HoS. Why people think their fantasy stories are unreadable without the specifics printed for us in massive walls of texts I'll never know. I genuinely rolled my eyes and signed in exasperation whenever I felt over coming on in this fic and promptly skimmed over the majority of it.

Funny, i still felt completely in the know.

You think it's long now? Imagine he actually did flesh out the harem to his level of satisfaction?

Sweet jesus

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

 

It updated... and it is not nearly as rage inducing as the last chapter. The reason the entire god damn flock is important has some logic behind it besides, hurr durr the story says they love him. Rin and Saber are well, somewhat decent. I am still trying to think of the pride she brings up is something rage worthy or not. Next chapter will be rage worthy when Shirou wins though.

Also, just since I felt like saying it. Hugplx is an idiot.

 

Yea, that pretty much sums up my take on it.

The whole nonsensical pride thing bothers me something fierce, but I don't know FSN well enough to say whether or not it's in-character. Considering how big a deal Rin's ruthless pragmatism has been made out to be though, I can't see it as being consistent.

And honestly, I'm kinda hoping Shirou loses. Get the ultimate surprise ending where rocks fall and everyone dies. It's not going to happen, of course, but I can dream.

 

This is were it ends for me I'm afraid. This chapter sums up everything I hate about this story, so much so that I can't stand reading another word of it.

 

Cruentus, please, do go on.

On the subject of him laughing, he laughed quite well in F/S:N but whatever. Someone from Beasts Lair found it.

 

To be blunt I hardly consider any of the Sekirei to actually be characters and not just wish fulfillment, it's why I loath the anime/manga with a burning passion. It's just one more generic harem anime trash that's clogged up the fandom in recent years, it's so bad now that I've begun to retroactively hate Tenchi Muyo, which I thought was alright. It's so bad that I've been finding it harder and harder to judge such anime with a more open mind and not let my preconceptions be colored by my sheer hatred. GB, unfortunately, is not a good enough writer to give any of these non characters an actual purpose beyond taking up space. He then takes Shirou, one of my favorite anime characters, alters him in a way that, while I don't quite hate it, is irritating. Bloats the story with crappy info dumps, comedy that falls flat, and weak character interaction and development, and then brings my two favorite Nasu heroines into the mix just to pull the tragic parting card which essentially Shirou's giving up two very well developed characters for one dimensional mouth breathers.

In short my patience with this story and it's parade of increasing errors has finally run out and the only saving grace is that this fic inspired some more interesting ideas that I hope go much better, though one looks like it will slide down the same slope.

Tragic really, this could have been so much better.

 

Really, I both like, and dislike this fic. I liked the premise, even if it was a bit basic. But as I started it, and did my research on the wiki about the various characters and backstory for Sekirei, I really found myself hoping that he'd keep it to 3 Sekirei, 4 at most. The others could be shunted aside, or meet various bad-ends, as is possible in the Nasuverse. Maybe one of em could have become another of Yukari's or Seo's Sekirei, if you wanted them to get something of a "happy compromise."

So I was disappointed, but not really surprised when more and more kept being added. A smaller harem probably would've lead to more well developed characters, at least the ones Shirou interacted with frequently. In fact, I think the fact that the story is limited to Shirou's perspective contributes to lack of depth. I'm not saying GB would have to switch he perspective 20 times a chapter, but an interlude showing the thoughts of different characters on events would probably have helped alot. I think at some point he wrote that he wanted to keep the fic as being all from the same perspective as a challenge, but if he did, in my opinion, he failed.

 

I'd rather he not have had any Sekirei at all, and that Rin and Saber had come with in the first place. In fact it would have been awesome to actually have Sekirei reacting to them, only for them to be turned down. I would have loved to have seen that difference brought up. Something like in Soul of Fire where...

Spoiler

Shirou flat out states he doesn't love Matsu, and doubts he ever will, and even when, in the latest chapter, he realizes he still loves Rin and Sakura, Matsu still didn't come up.

In the end the whole Skeirei bond is the equivalent of soul bonding in HP fanfics. It's a lazy way to force a relationship, and fuck that noise.

A FSN/Sekirei cross that plays on that shallowness would be awesome.

 

At that point, it really does seem like your letting your disgruntlement at harem anime influence your view. Yes, the bond thing is a kind cop-out when it comes to relationships, bu even that has the potential to be done well. And then there's the matter that in such a fic...where the hell is the plot? If he's turning down all he Sekirei reacting to him, what reason doe he have to be involved at all? I just don't see it.

 

I actually can see and agree with a lot of the motivations of the people in this chapter. Honestly it makes up for the subpar last chapter.

While I myself prefer a one-man-woman ration in romances, Sekirei is probably the only one where a harem actually works. With the bond, the aliens go from being a potential love interest pre-bond to having a 'Center of my life, right or wrong' mentality instantaneously, accepting everything good and bad about their Ashikabi and being utterly devoted to their happiness. Even if their special time is cut up from having more lovers, they are okay with it as long as their lover is happy and safe. Is it a forced wish-fulfillment? Yes, without a doubt. But that is a failing of the mangaka, not Gabriel.

And the Sekirei manga didn't even start out that bad. It was a standard story of a good-natured guy with poor luck meeting a girl. Normal. And while there was fanservice, the breasts were actually normally-sized and it was more about Musubi being totally ignorant of the effect she had than anything else. It was only after it got popular and the anime was released that the artwork changed, and the number of girls snowballed. Like a lot of shows, it was a victim of its own success.

Back to the motivations, we see Rin and Saber and their pride. Honestly this is totally within their characters, and pretty much that of every person in existence. As I mentioned before, for Sekirei it is normal and acceptable for there to be numerous partners and for it to work.

This is NOT the normal case. I HIGHLY doubt that there are any relationships with multiple partners that actually work out. Even earlier in the story, when Shirou would mention his previous relationship, the assumption was that he was two-timing rather than it being a healthy relationship. If my girlfriend and I were forcibly separated for a year, and when we met up again she had no less than six lovers, there would be no way that I could just join in. Nor could Rin and Saber. And if she was horribly mentally damaged when we split despite my best efforts and when we met up again she was ten times better, I too would probably let her stay even if it broke my heart. And then after all that, she offers me a chance to have her all to myself again? I'd leap on it.

I'm totally fine with the character reactions for the most part. Honestly I'd have been bit disappointed if it went smoothly. This is not Emiya Clan. This is a FSN/Sekirei crossover.

 

Yeah, the last chapter was utterly terrible and really fucked things over fairly significantly. This chapter was actually a decent recovery from it. Of course we should not have been in this situation to start with, but I think the best was made out of what we got - though I'll never really view In Flight the same after that.

I actually liked the thing about Rin and Saber's pride not really allowing them to share, as well as Shirou's personality finally being criticised for once (albeit fairly mildly really). Shirou's challenge could be interesting, though almost seems like a side thing (unless Karasuba or MBI appear during the fight).

Disagree. I can think of a few decent Sekirei fics that actually pull off good relationships (Veiled Moon - Bleach crossover, Postnupital Disagreements - FSN and a non-crossover I forget the name of). Most are one on one, but it was GB's decision to go with canon harem pairings.

I just thought of an idea kind of inspired by the manga Sakuranbo Syndrome that could actually be interesting and plays on this. Basically take a couple that is very much in love and happy. Now throw a Sekirei in the mix who claims to be unable to live without her ashikabi. If someone could pull off the character development/interaction, it could be very interesting. Just have no idea how you would actually conclude it.

Part of the reason why I liked Veiled Moon too. Rather than simply accepting that he now had a girl in love with him, Ichigo feels very uncomfortable and angry at being fucked around again.

 

To be honest, I don't have nearly the hate so many people seem to have for this fic. I feel more apathetic than anything. I find the story kind of boring at this point, but I still read it when there is an update as a way to pass the time. Sometimes it will be a week or two after an update before I get around to reading the latest chapter, but I do eventually get around to reading it. It just isn't very high on my to do list.

Also, although I agree there are many things I would have liked to have seen done differently, GB has said that the story has progressed pretty much the way he wanted it to go, is happy with it, and has had fun writing it. I feel that is what is most important. If this was a book I actually paid money for, I am sure my rage levels would a lot higher, but since it was free, I can just shrug and focus on another story.

 

The reason everyone is so angry is that this story could have been amazing and was looking amazing for some time. Very few things are as rage worthy as something amazing turning to hell when it could have been avoided.

 

And one of the few things that are as rage worthy as having something amazing turn to hell is something doing it over and over again over the course of almost 700k words. It wouldn't have bothered me if In Flight had started out great and then broke down to never return. No, what bothered me was that there are several very good moments in this that show the redeeming factors in the story, moments that quickly crashed and burned into the usual harem indulging mediocrity that the story became.

 

What I would like to see is once this story is finished, Gabriel goes through and abridges this fic, cutting out all FSN-verse exposition so that people that have actually read/watched that universe won't be bogged down by unnecessary words. Not necessarily all of it, but the long-winded talks and the various 'Shirou says a word x member of his harem doesn't understand, he explains' bits that are peppered through.

Upon reflection, I realized there was a character portrayal I did not like: Saber. She gets so few lines, and they are almost always to the side that it feels like Rufus in Gabe's Kim Possible fics: He forgets to put her in until the last minute. A lot of it is that Rin is naturally more expressive and dominates any scene she's in--especially exposition scenes, but still.