Infinity War Spoilers Thread

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by Starwind, Apr 26, 2018.

  1. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Guess the scene just didn't come across that way to me.
     
  2. Seyllian

    Seyllian Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    On the Shuri thing, I think my biggest issue is that being the smartest person doesn't equate to having the most knowledge.

    Stephen Hawking was an incredibly smart man, but if I wanted someone to give me an explanation on Shakespeare he wouldn't be my choice. Characters, even geniuses, have areas of expertise. Even in Avengers 1, Tony Stark (the arrogant genius) resorted to Banner's expertise regarding gamma radiation. But now, we have a girl who's 16 who knows more than Stark and Banner and an AI. Think about it: Can a person who is only 16 really accumulate that much knowledge and be so well versed in all that scientific information? Even if she is the smartest person in the world, I doubt she'd have enough time to devote to know all the particulars her comment insinuated..

    tl;dr: Stark, Banner have clear, defined areas of expertise. Shuri, apparently, knows everything and anything.
     
  3. Gengar

    Gengar Polymagus Prestige DLP Supporter

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    but...but... Vibranium!
     
  4. KHAAAAAAAN!!

    KHAAAAAAAN!! Troll in the Dungeon Prestige DLP Supporter

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    I really don't get why everyone is bitching so hard about the Shuri thing. Was Banner's "derp" reply full of cringe and a typical english major-y attempt to make Shuri's simplistic technobabble seem supersmart? Yes. Should he have said something like "A mindcontrolled bioengineer was responsible for the brunt of Vision's physical layout?" Yes.

    But Vision is an android made of vibranium. Shuri is a genius Wakandan engineer with vast amounts of experience working with vibranium tech. I think it's perfectly plausible that she could have tons of ideas about vibranium AI design that Stark and Banner haven't even dreamed of.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
  5. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

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    ^This. Also, and I'm using this as an example to explain an attitude, not suggest that it is actually true of anyone in the thread, before people get annoyed, but while it is of course ridiculous and irritating to say that if you don't like a black* character it's because you're racist, I can understand where that attitude comes from when discussion of whether that thirty second scene is trash or not takes up nearly a quarter of the goddamn thread.

    *or whatever not straight white male character happens to be being discussed at the time.
     
  6. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    I'm willing to concede the fact that Shuri's expertise with Vibranium gives her insight that others won't have, considering it's basically Unobtanium, able to do whatever it needs to at any given time.

    I still don't like the character as she's portrayed in IW, but I will say that I didn't have time to see Black Panther, and that may have impacted my opinion of her.
     
  7. Celestin

    Celestin Master of Death

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    A screentime of each character in the film.

    It's from reddit/imdb and I'm not sure how accurate it is.

    Not a surprise Thanos has the most minutes.

    Surprisingly, it's not Tony who is the second, but Gamora. I wouldn't expect that before watching the film.

    Compared to others, Vision and Wanda got plenty of time, yet in my opinion they (actors and directors) didn't use it as well as they could.

    Cap lacked the presence for the minutes he had compared to others, but he managed to have some good moments.

    Natasha on the other hand really had almost nothing compared to Drax, Nabula, Loki or even Pepper. Probably because her fighting scenes were less personal than for other characters and she didn't get that hinted in the trailers scene with Banner.

    Ned with his 15 seconds managed to be MVP of the film anyway. ;)
     
  8. Heather_Sinclair

    Heather_Sinclair Minister of Magic

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  9. The Pro

    The Pro Seventh Year

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  10. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    So I watched Black Panther last night.

    It did nothing to improve my opinion of Shuri, it's kinda worsened actually. rip
     
  11. LittleChicago

    LittleChicago Death Eater DLP Supporter

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    Just saw it a few hours ago, and... fuck. Definitely a spectacle. Still digesting, so just a few thoughts:

    Quill referring to Thanos' chin as a nutsack was beautiful.

    Re-cast Red Skull is better than no Red Skull.

    The lack of a, "No shit, Sherlock," exchange between Stark and Strange is a serious disappointment.

    The moment when Shuri was super-condescending got precisely zero laughs in my theatre. And deservedly so.

    More Natasha/Bruce time - even an awkward apology or a quick kiss - would have been most welcome.

    The kids behind me were crying at Spider-Man's dusting, but no one else was.

    I miss Loki and Heimdal already.

    It took an hour until I realised Thanos never did say balancing the universe brought a smile to his face, and that sucks. I liked that line.

    Nick Fury came *this* close to dropping the MCU's first F-bomb.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2018
  12. Lion

    Lion Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Saw the movie today and I loved it. In my top three for MCU with Guardians 1 and Black Panther. Nick Fury definitely had the best moment and got me super hyped for Captain Marvel. I thought Spider-mans whole dramatic death was a little corny, but someone said that it was his spidey-sense freaking out that made him act that way and I've accepted it.

    Shuri being one of the smartest people in the MCU kinda makes sense to me because Wakanda is basically in the future. The technology that they have is super advanced and decades ahead of the rest of the world. It's like a child from 2100 laughing at cutting edge technology from the modern day, or better yet how we react to stupid shit from the 1800s. Sure washing your hands before a medical procedure is common place now, but when it was first proposed they thought it was a joke. The Vision was built using a metal they had a minuscule amount of with technology they only barely understood. Wakandan kids probably learn how to build Vibranium drones in elementary school as a regular class project. We're making volcanoes at our science fairs and they had robots made of magic metal. Look at the bracelets that every Character has in Black Panther. They're common place and they have technology that is casually better than most of the MCU. Shot in the spine? Lemme stick this in here and that'll hold you together long enough for us to heal you to full health a day later. Diagnostic scans? Easy lemme wave my hand around real quick. Communicators and holo-screens wouldn't even make the top five most futuristic settings for those beads and everyone has them.

    Shuri being as smart as Tony Stark makes sense. I'd say Tony is the better genius because he built himself up to that level using "real" world tech, but excusing Shuri because she's a new and untested or unproven character as some of you has said is bullshit. These movies are her proving herself and the writers showing that she's as smart as Stark and Banner. Does she make some condescending comments? Fuck yea. Is that reason to disregard the actual genius level work that she puts out? Fuck no.
     
  13. Sivcere

    Sivcere Squib

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    Great movie, really enjoyed it. I really enjoy how they're writing Thor right now, his scenes with the guardians was great. Drax stole the show whenever he was on screen. Baby Groot was waaaay better than Teenage Groot. Spiderman's death scene was fucken brutal.

    Can't wait for the next.

    Basically, Shuri stands on the shoulders of giants and can look Stark square in the eye when he stands on his own two feet.
     
  14. Nazgus

    Nazgus Headmaster

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    The issue is that it wasn't presented as something they didn't know would be possible due to the material they had available, it was presented as them just not having been smart enough to think of it. Even though, as others have pointed out, they weren't even the ones to do a lot of the ground work.

    The scene could've worked, but instead of using a quick back and forth with Bruce about it where he leaves impressed with her while still standing on his feet as a genius they had her deliver a verbal slap and be condescending while he stood there and took it with a "We didn't think of that" and nothing else. It's the fact that they tore down Bruce to bring her up that ticks people off.
     
  15. Lion

    Lion Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Yup, and there's nothing wrong with that, especially since she's only 16. It's not like Stark didn't have his own advantages in growing up. Would he be where he is if he wasn't born a billionaire with a Genius father who pushed him to be smarter and left him technology that no one else had access to? Maybe, but honestly who knows. Banner is honestly leagues ahead of both of them in terms of pure genius, especially because he didn't have any distinct advantages growing up.

    Honestly I think you're all reading too much into one line. Her line wasn't even that condescending. She used a superior piece of technology to quickly analyze and diagnose the problem. Banner saying they didn't think of that is honestly a good response. No need to add another fifteen seconds of him explaining that in the heat of the moment they didn't have time to really work out anything other than a quick solution. Banner quickly shrugging it off as we didn't think of it makes perfect sense. They didn't think of it, and no one wanted to fuck with what was working for the Vision anyway. Not like he was around to tune him up, and Stark wasn't there to deliver this quick and biting remark that some people seem to think was missing. All of this forgets the fact that they went to Wakanda and sought out Shuri because they didn't know what the fuck to do. It's not like she randomly showed up and started laying some verbal beat down on them. They went to the one place in the world that could solve the problem, and some of you fucks are getting mad because they solved the fucking problem. Banner didn't work with Shuri to solve the problem because he didn't know how to do it. He went and got smacked around in a Hulkbuster suit because he couldn't do shit else except twiddle his thumbs.

    Essentially what was a cute throwaway line turns into drama because she's black and female. Not saying anyone is racist or sexist but lets be honest here. If Spider-man said the same exact line in a similar scenario people would have thought it was hilarious or at least chuckle worthy. If Shuri weren't a black female this wouldn't be a problem and don't give me that bullshit character bashing or dragging others down nonsense. Cause lets be honest some of the comments have been kinda borderline on the racism scale, and honestly anyone who feels the need to defend whether or not their comments are racist or sexist is probably just a little racist or sexist deep down.
     
  16. Nazgus

    Nazgus Headmaster

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    I honestly feel like I would've felt the same way about the line if it had been Peter Parker saying it, because he would've been a bit of a dick.

    Don't remember who said it, but earlier someone noted that Stark also acts like this, but it's not presented as something we should cheer for. You might find it funny, you might not. But in the movie people react like he's being kind of a dick (which he is). Here it felt like we were just supposed to be impressed with how much smarter she is and leave it at that.

    Main complaint is that she was a bit of a condescending dick in the scene (not sure you can credibly disagree with that part), and that Banner just kind of took it (which you might or might not feel was a little out of character).

    While I agree that some people would complain no matter how it was executed, it's also equally ridiculous for you to say that we the we can't critique the execution without being racist and/or sexist. Tbh though, it is getting a bit absurd just how much time we're spending on what is in the end, a single throwaway line.
     
  17. Lion

    Lion Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    I'm not saying that you can't critique the execution without being racist or sexist, I'm just saying that some people's critiques have undertones of racism or sexism. I specifically said some people because some people shared a valid opinion that she came off as condescending. While some people made it more into a racial thing. It was a throwaway line that some people disagreed with, I just personally think some of the disagreement comes because she is a black female. Anyone who said that the writers couldn't have Banner or another character clap back at her because she is a black female is being just a little racist. Blaming society as a reason that they think the writers had to make her amazing for amazings sake is just a little sexist. Comparing her to characters who are more fleshed out and have far more screen time is bullshit. Tony has had three solo movies to work out his problems, but Shuri has had a fraction and people are expecting the same type of character transformation. As for this need to be impressed I'm seriously not getting that. I literally downloaded a pirated version of Infinity War to rewatch the scene and I got no vibe that I was supposed to be impressed because of this throwaway line. I was more impressed by the fact that she kept working all the way til the point that a fucking assassin tried to stop her. All while her brother and countrymen were fighting and dying to by her time to save some motherfucker she has never met.
     
  18. Celestin

    Celestin Master of Death

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    Gamora meeting her siblings.

    It's not going to happen, but it would be fun to have a Marvel One-Shot with all Thanos' children interacting before Gamora and Nebula betrayed him.
     
  19. Republic

    Republic The Snow Queen Prestige DLP Supporter

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    @Lion the fact that you insist it's because she's black and female speaks more about you than anyone who critiques that scene; who provided actual characterization arguments that never involved race or gender. If anyone is concerned about gender or race, it seems to be you. Might want to look into that.

    The problem is that they are trying to create character setup that used to take whole movies and cram it into single lines, specifically by comparison and contrast to an already setup character. "Hey look, she's smarter than two guys we've been establishing as geniuses for a bout a decade now. Take our word for it". This has massive problems and showcases the problem with trying to introduce and validate brand new characters in the middle of huge crossover events where no one has a lot of screentime. She doesn't even succeed in what she was trying to do, in the end.

    Or you can ignore all that and continue projecting your issues with race and gender. Whatever works for you.
     
  20. Lion

    Lion Denarii Host DLP Supporter

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    Lets just start by saying I'm not insisting that every single argument against it is racism or sexism. In fact in the post one above yours I specifically said some people, for a fucking reason. There were plenty of posters who made a valid reason for not liking Shuri's character. Did I disagree with them? Sure, and I bought up why I disagreed with the valid reasons. Such as length of characterization or the perception of her like so totally pwning Banner and all the other super geniuses before her. As you said people wanted to see more characterization for Shuri than what we got. Sure it didn't happen because the movie is packed but ignoring how one. Fucking. Line. Is being taken as her assaulting the combined genius of every previous smart character in the MCU is pushing it just a little. As I said my personal justification was that she was using superior technology that specifically is better for the situation. It's like if a couple of 1950s car mechanics got their hands on a modern day Mercedes. Sure they could fix it up, but it won't be the best job. When they take it to a modern mechanic, who may have less overall experience, they're gonna do a better job. They have access to better tools and a better understanding.

    As for seeing signs of racism and sexism, lets take a look at some of the comments. I was gonna avoid doing this by just saying some people and assuming people would be smart enough to read the posts and see what I'm talking about, but fuck it. It's Sunday and I'm bored.

    So there is no mention of the character of Shuri in this post. He directly says that because of modern day society, and it's implied political correctness, they wouldn't have Banner talk DOWN to her. Not speaking as equals as some suggested, or even offering some clever one liner, specifically talking down to the little African princess genius. Cause that's what should have happened when the little African princess opened her mouth while the adults were talking. Disregarding the fact that they went to Wakanda and sought this little African princess because they have no fucking idea how to save Vision.

    So this is kinda a valid complaint. Sure he starts off saying she can suck a dick and has to point out that he thinks it's stupid that she's only smarter because Vibranium hurr durr. Again a casual disregard for the fact that Wakanda is literally a futuristic nation. I've already covered how that might contribute to her being better at this subject, let alone any others that her nation has been working on for centuries. But she did talk down to poor Banner so lets forget all that.

    The blindingly obvious deduction that came from using advanced sensors made to work with the material that his body was made of. A materiel that two AIs, Bruce Banner, and Tony had no idea how to use. A material that Shuri has been using all of her life and we have two movies full of cool shit she's developed using it. Yea, that is pretty far fetched. And look at poor Bruce Banner, being emasculated because of all those women in the movie he cowers to. You can bet my bottom dollar that when he said "We didn't think of it" every femnist the world over rejoiced at the patriarchy being taken down. I mean the pain and anguish with which he states his defeat as he begs on his knees for the African Goddess that is Shuri to help him is simply orgasmic. I'm glad we all saw the same movie. And bonus points for mentioning that a black woman doing better at a subject than a white man is sure to make some people mad, but not you. You hated the scene for totally different reasons and I get that.

    So yea I can keep pointing out examples or we can maybe admit that SOME people have a valid reason for disliking Shuri as a character and that SOME people don't.
     
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