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Marvel Cinematic Universe General Thread

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by Andrela, Jul 18, 2017.

  1. Immet

    Immet Seventh Year

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    They're all idiots for claiming a bold statement without checking it out before proclaiming it to the world, but we all know that people often use "first ____" to mean "first ____ I've heard of" or "first ____ that I've been a part of culturally". And that mangling of the language pisses me off so much, but within that context it's understandable since the Blade series is going to be linked to the later ones which really have nothing to do with the comic at that stage, Spawn is less a black guy than a demonic festering pile of maggots, angst, chains, and angst in an edgy costume, and the others are forgettable films that need googling to recall.

    Now the getting angry at any criticism and the stupid ideas that I hope are sarcasm (like no white people should see it in the first couple of weeks to allow black people to see it first) is complete stupidity and echo chamber bullshit.
     
  2. Celestin

    Celestin Half-Blood Prince

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    A little off topic, but it's weird how things that weren't special in the past suddenly become the most important thing of the generation, at least when it comes to films. Like when Hunger Games was suppose to prove that a female can be a lead in an action film, like Aliens and Terminator series never happened, not to mention the not that bad first Tomb Raider.

    Now we get the same with Black Panther when Blade was the superhero who actually started the Marvel Studios' raise to power.
     
  3. bonnerr2

    bonnerr2 First Year

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    I believe you guys are downplaying the significance of Black Panther for the black community.

    Black Panther is a 200 million dollar film, apart of the biggest cinematic marketing machine in the industry. It has a cast that is predominantly black and has been noted to feature themes that resonate specifically within black culture. It is like nothing that has come before it.

    This is important; the films you mentioned had a black leading man, perhaps, but most of them still had predominantly white casts (Blade, Spawn, Hancock). If they didn't (Meteor Man, for instance), they lacked the enormous investment that BP boasts. Panther has some of the finest young black actors/actresses of the age, is set in AFRICA ABOUT ROYALTY, and has been critically acclaimed. It's importance cannot be understated.
     
  4. Celestin

    Celestin Half-Blood Prince

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    First of all, if we're comparing we should compared film as they were at the time of their production. As it was The Meteor Man from 1993 with its $30m wasn't that much cheaper than Batman from 1989 with its $35m budged.

    But lets get outside of superheroes for a moment because their dominance is a recent thing and go to the genres that dominated different eras. Like 80/90 comedy and action films. Then you get films like Coming to America which had $39m budged in 1989 was quite a hit with the audience and critics (the 3rd most popular film of 1988 after Rain Man and Who Framed Roger Rabbit, but before Big and Twins), had some of the finest black actors of its age and is about Africa royalty no less.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  5. Inert

    Inert Auror

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    Basically this. It also comes at a time in the US where social issues specifically relating to black folks are a large talking point. Given the platform it has for potentially digging into some of these issues (though the reviews I've read said it doesn't do so overtly), it's easy to see how people could be very invested in it. It's a predominantly black cast in a movie that isn't "black" from a cultural standpoint; otherwise known as white people will be seeing it in droves.

    I will agree that the social media has gotten tiresome. Anyone who claims a critic is racist for not liking a movie isn't someone I take seriously. Most of the jokes re white folks seeing it in theaters are just that. I also avoid Reddit and Tumblr like the plague for shit like this. The deluge of reactions is going to be bad enough on twitter.
     
  6. bonnerr2

    bonnerr2 First Year

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    BP is more important than any of those films before due to it's financial backing, its collection of on screen talent, Its exploration of African disenfranchisement, and celebration of black potential. There has not previously been a film with that combination for black people to rally around with this type of marketing behind it.

    The fact that you had to go back to 1988 for a film of similar cultural significance is indicative of the event status of BP. Coming to America is one of the most legendary films in African American culture, and even it still pales in comparison to BP's potential impact.

    39 million in 1989 is staggering, even considering the massive star power of Eddie Murphy in the 80s (roughly 80 million in today's dollars, if you believe dodgy internet calculators). But even adjusting for inflation, it doesn't touch the resources Marvel/Disney has put into this project. Black Panther not only features a near all black cast, it has an up and coming black director, and a soundtrack curated by the Grammy award winning foremost act in rap in Kendrick Lamar. There is legitimate excitement from black people that have never seen a marvel film in their lives: my 60 year old mother will be in a theatre this weekend, with absolutely no idea of what the hell is going on.
     
  7. Celestin

    Celestin Half-Blood Prince

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    My point is that there were films like BP before. Not exactly, but I would say that Coming to America is in a way more successful because it wasn't based on already popular franchise.

    Then we somehow got to the point where getting another one like that become the event of the year. That's what's weird to me.

    To be honest that says more about insane budges of today's superhero films than anything else. Though Marvel did give it extra money compared to say Doctor Strange or Spider-Man.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  8. Snapdragon

    Snapdragon Seventh Year

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    So will the black community now watch BP multiple times to compensate if the movie potentially fails because it's targeted mostly at that limited subgroup by design?:)

    Personally I avoid movies casted for ethnical reasons than actual story, actor talent or artistic vision aren't something I enjoy especially when it's designed for the different tastes of the target group.

    At the most I consider the Blaxpoitation genre amusing but nothing I hold any interest in as a trope.
     
  9. momo

    momo Second Year

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    Personally, I believe the race of the people involved in the movie should not matter at all. I don't care what race the actors, directors, or soundtrack developers were. I watch a movie for its strengths and shortcomings as a plot and how interesting it seems.

    I will be watching Black Panther but not because the lead is black. Because I genuinely like the MCU.

    The fact that people are making such a bid deal out of such a trivial thing is beyond me.
     
  10. Erandil

    Erandil Headmaster

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    I am not sure if I would call (institutional) racism a trivial thing... The problem is that even nowadays the race and gender of the people involved in a film matters a great deal and can at times have far more impact than talent etc. Your argument would have merit if those factors didn't play such an important role when it comes to casting, getting a job in this field, getting financing/greenlit etc. But since those factors play such a huge role in this market it seems quite hypocritical to act like the only thing that should matter is the "quality" of the
    movie and that topics like diversity and equality are of no importance.

    The problem isn't that Black Panther has a mostly black cast and storyline, it is that such a thing sadly is still noteworthy and rare today. (And of course the fact they they went for a somewhat positive portrayal of an African country, fictional it may be, it yet another difference to the norm).
     
  11. Tartarus

    Tartarus Second Year

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    It's as noteworthy as people want it to be. You can't expect the some amount of black actors in Hollywood, when only around 12% of Americans are black.

    It's logical that it has a mostly black cast, considering it's suppose to be happening in fictional country in Africa. What's not logical is people expect the same from a movie that's not happening in a country/region/continent with a bigger black population.
     
  12. Dresden11

    Dresden11 First Year

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    I am looking forward to BP myself. Though I do wish America would get over its guilt complex when it comes to black people. The black population is steadily decreasing as a demographic in America. I think the last census data was that blacks are only 12% of America whereas the Hispanic population is around 17% and white people are at 68%. People always make such a big deal about so few people of color in Hollywood compared to white people.... Just look at the numbers within the country. I think the census data basically explains itself. Though I do think there is still a racist element in Hollywood even though they go out of their way to be as 'progressive' as possible.
     
  13. pbluekan

    pbluekan Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    Considering discrimination is still an issue, I don’t think it’s something to “get over.”
     
  14. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    Exactly this. I'd love to be in a place where it doesn't matter what color someone's skin is and we could finally make racism as much of a distant memory as all the weird superstitions there used to be about left-handed people, but that hasn't happened yet.

    I think a lot of it is less proper racism out of Hollywood, and more the weird internal logic of Hollywood's moneymaking decisions. Like how they spent more than a decade refusing to do any female-header superhero movies because the Elektra and Catwoman movies bombed. What Hollywood took away from that was that audiences don't want superheroine movies, instead of the much more logical conclusion that those movies bombed because they were godawful.

    Edit: For that matter, you still see this kind of thinking happening. When Justice League underperformed there were so many people saying that the only reason a movie with mixed-to-bad reviews and a notoriously troubled production could've done badly is that the entire superhero genre is getting played out.

    Race-wise, I think the common Hollywood worry is that going with a mostly black cast means it might be seen by the general public as a movie only meant for black people, who as you noted are not a huge chunk of the population. It's not all that long ago black actors who could draw in a white audience were considered rare and precious commodities.
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2018
  15. pbluekan

    pbluekan Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    I mean, that isn’t entirely wrong. It is getting played out. However, DC just can’t seem to properly adapt their comics into a script that works. That, or they make some terrible casting choices. Seriously, Remus Lupin (yes I know that’s not his real name) as Ares? The guy just oozes convivial and mild mannered even when dressed in edgelord armor. It’s the mustache.

    The should have just stopped with Nolan’s trilogy.
     
  16. Mutton

    Mutton Auror

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    He was actually based off a painting of Ares and the whole "mild mannered" was kind of the point of the whole film
     
    Last edited: Feb 13, 2018
  17. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    A lot of it seems to be down to the DCEU just not taking the time to properly do things in the writing room. Suicide Squad is the most obvious case with WB allowing only six weeks to write and revise the script, then just shooting a ton of footage and trying to edit it all together into something resembling a coherent plot. That, and much like every other attempt to launch a Cinematic Universe other than the MCU they don't seem to grasp how to actually set things up and pull it all together. It's probably telling that the two least bad DCEU movies were the ones that largely had to stand on their own rather than the mega-crossover ones.
     
  18. Nevermind

    Nevermind Second Year

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    So, I guess the Honest Trailer people read DLP now?