Heh, if people want to bash Kakashi for being bad and lazy teacher, then it would be hypocritical to forget about Toad Sage Jiraiya.

He had Naruto for about 2,5-3 years and what was the result ? As far as I remember almost nothing. No Sage training, no Genjutsu, no Taijutsu, no elemental training, Naruto is still naive idiot (parts about "S-Rank mission" about biology of that training island where he was fighting with Kyuubi made me rage) etc.

 

I've just been looking over all of the other pages in this thread, and I realised that nobody put the most commonly used to clichè I have seen.
Guy and Lee's sunset of youth being an unbreakable genjustu/torture method.

 

It isn't a cliche it is an unexplainable force of nature that even the Bijuu fear.

 

This is true terror.

 

Bullshit.

Kakashi is awesome and a great teacher. Just look how easily his team deals with their opponents in the chuunin exams. And even if you claim that the only thing that Kakashi taught them is tree walking, that still more than most of the other genin can do. The only other "genin" we see who can cling to trees and walls is Gaara, who's hardly a good example. We know for a fact that guys like Shikamaru cannot do this, so if you claim that Kakashi is a shit teacher then Asuma must be half retarded.

 

I didn't say that I said we don't know what kind of teacher he is as Canon doesn't show how other Jounin taught their teams. All of the other Genin knew techniques, so every idiot assumes Kakashi is a bad teacher however all of those techniques are CLAN techniques that their famil taught them. I don't think Kakashi is a bad teacher but we don't know.

 

I don't know what you're remembering, Howdy. Besides Sasuke the entirety of Team 7 skirted through the Chunnin Exams on luck, or skills from the Academy:

Exam One completely baffled Naruto and it was only his completely irrational confidence in his skills that allowed him to answer one of the questions right. He didn't get the point of the exam and didn't find a single answer to the first nine questions. Sakura succeeded at the first exam because of her ridiculous knowledge-base from the Academy.

Exam Two, Naruto was impersonated twice and it was only Sasuke's abilities that saved them. Sakura is absolutely useless the entire time and Naruto pulls his stupid over-confidence out again in the face of an S-class ninja. Kabuto, said ninja's spy, is the only reason they make it through. It's the Goblet of Fire all over again....

The preliminaries are a joke. Naruto wins by farting in the obviously superior Kiba's face and Sakura gets knocked out after pulling a few Academy techniques out of her hat.

Neither do anything special, or show any abilities they didn't already have from the Academy. Sasuke backpacks the group the entire time and he was the only one to receive and actual training from Kakashi, bar tree walking. How can you possibly call the man a good teacher? They should have all died if not for Sasuke, and Naruto gets through by sheer dumb luck and perseverance. Calling it anything else would be a lie.

 

:facepalm Hoo boy. Test One was meant to confuse the fuck out of the genin, if you remember, they planted chunin with the answers in the test because the genin weren't supposed to know how to do the test.

Test Two, Sasuke shows that hes not an idiot, and yes, Sakura does shit all, but thats due to her being shy and insecure rather than actually trying. Naruto pulls out confidence, but manages to kill a giant snake all by himself using ingenuity and rejoins the fight, displaying a strong sense of teamwork (Kakashi's ultimate objective with training). Sasuke, of course, being good in his own right, holds out, but also displays concern for Sakura with the sound team, again showing how Team 7 have changed, presumably because of Kakashi's tutelage.

The preliminaries, well. Sakura isn't a great nin, and the fact that she managed to survive at all against a clan heir just shows to me that Kakashi improved her quite a bit. Naruto's fight is interesting. Kiba was better prepared and really, a better fighter than Naruto at that point. But Naruto held on, and kept fighting and through that he got a lucky break. So he doesn't win every fight, and this reflects so badly on his teacher, a man who focuses on teamwork over individual skills and has only had him for around six months, versus Kiba's lifetime in clan training. Right.

What Luckylee and Snarf don't get is that Team 7 had a disadvantage from the start. Every other Rookie Nine member is from a clan, and has been training since early childhood. Team Nine has had over a year with Gai, the training fanatic. In fact all of the final teams have some sort of advantage over Team 7, be it time or weird experiments or clans. Team 7 has Sasuke, who is good but anti-social, Naruto who can run for ages but can barely throw a knife straight, and Sakura, the weakest child in Konoha bar six-month old babies. That Kakashi took six months with them, and turned them into a semi-cohesive fighting unit that had enough power to gun through or at least survive most obstacles speaks of miracles rather than shit.

And just because it wasn't explicitly shown, doesn't mean it didn't happen! Yes, he only spent a couple lessons teaching as such on screen, but do you really want to watch all the boring times when they ran laps around the training ground, or went over throwing practice, or drilled how to punch for hours? No, you don't. Undoubtedly, they did all of those things. Despite 'not showing any advanced skills', the team do display quite a better grasp of the basics, you know, those things genin concentrate on instead of learning tons of new techniques.

Also, some of you remarked on the tree-walking exercise, and how Asuma must be half-retarded if he didn't teach his genin the exercise. Well, just to remind you, there are literally twenty thousand ninja in Konoha, and this is peacetime. They don't need to be trained up the wazoo, and these are genin. They are not supposed to level up like Dragonball Z, they are supposed to be shit. Naruto gets lucky with Shadow Clones, Sasuke with haxSharingan and Sakura gets lucky because her skillset happens to coincide with a great nin's. Regular ninja do not learn five kinds of techniques within six months.

TL;DR No. Implicit Training and their place in the low end of the ninja ranks mean they aren't meant to powerlevel. Kakashi teaches team skills and individual skills, but he is at a disadvantage, and still does pretty good. He may not be 10/10, but hes sure as shit not a 1/10. Either way, the point is that bashing is dumb, with which I'm sure you agree.

 

He didn't teach teamwork, Naruto and Sasuke bonded over a life or death fight and having similar lives, and Naruto has a massive crush on Sakura. I don't think thats due to Kakashi but yeah bashing is stupid.

 

And if you look at the manga, the other genin who failed before the final question were all caught cheating. They knew exactly what they needed to do to pass, they just failed at execution. Naruto was completely lost and all we saw was, "Hurrrr, uhhhh, durrrr! I can't fail! I'm going to be the Hokage!"

So teamwork and caring for other Konoha nin, plus tree walking... that's the extent of Kakashi's training to Naruto and Sakura. You have not proven he has done anything else and I'm sorry, but that just isn't good tutelage. Especially when Naruto is such an awful ninja in general.

Talk about fanon cliches :facepalm. We have no proof, besides family jutsu, that any of the Rookie Nine are trained extensively from childhood. They all went to the Academy and studied the ninja arts there, just like others. Why would Sakura be the top kunoichi in her class if the other girls had such an advantage over her?

The only person we see who trains ridiculously hard outside of class is Sasuke, and everyone in the class knew he would be rookie of the year. That, more than anything, shows that the other students in the class didn't train extensively from childhood. Yes they have an advantage because they've learned more jutsu than their peers, but it is nothing so drastic as you're imagining.

Learning to throw weapons and basic taijutsu is the job for the academy instructors, not Jounin sensei. I'm not discussing Kakashi training them extensively in awesome jutsu, but instead realizing that his other two students are drastically[/] unprepared to be Chunnin where they will begin to train in all of the advanced skills you speak of.

Naruto has horribly sloppy taijutsu, sense of awareness, and deductive skills. Based on his Chunnin exam performance that I mentioned above, that did not change in any significant way from his abysmal performance in Kakashi's first test.

Sakura has all of these skills without the courage to use them. Kakashi should have trained her to respond under pressure when he realized how easy she was to crack with the dead-Sasuke Genjutsu.

On that I can agree with you. Ron the Death Eater is ridiculous, but there is some validity to Kakashi being a failure of a teacher.

 

Kakashi was a bit late for the whole teaching thing, "Naruto, I am going to teach you a chuunin level skill called elemental manipulation even though I was told 3 years ago that you had S Class Ninja after you."

 

Snarf says what?

Ino was the top kunoichi.

Lol no. They were prepared. They were fucking monsters in comparison to the average genin, and just had the shitty luck to be in the one exam with all the other monsters.

Lol, what? Naruto has good taijutsu (he fucking improvised entirely new moves and beat up a giant snake). He advanced quite significantly from what he was exiting the academy.

Who says he didn't? She set up traps once Sasuke and Naruto were down to cover them, and after getting jumped by superior genin, still tried to fight. Bitch was green, not a coward.

 

When is it stated Ino was top Kunoichi?

 

Databooks. If I remember correctly, she got better grades than Sakura in them.

 

I didn't start reading the manga until Shippuuden but does Sakura have the crazy ass split personality in it too? Because that is an annoying cliche, Sakura has another personality that she uses to resist interrogation and make her a better Kunoichi haha!

 

Before Jiraiya's training, Naruto's only saving grace was the Kyuubi. Give me a fight where he showed any abilities even marginally approaching Sasuke's without Kyuubi's influence.

The Rookie of the year, the top kunoichi, and the dead last are paired together to balance teams.

You say this, but I would like some proof. I've already given mine in earlier posts. Refute them.

Give me an example? Naruto gets eaten by a giant snake but maybe I'm forgetting something in the middle of the battle with Orochimaru. He uses Kage Bunshin to blow up the snake as he's being digested. I don't remember any taijutsu skills being shown there.

His battles with Kiba and Neji show his resilience to pain and ass-kickings, not any ability at taijutsu. It actually shows the opposite.

I'm assuming that's a she? And name a fight before that she participated in. More so, that scene with the Sound trio was a turning point for her. Before that she was useless and after she began to build the courage to actually be a ninja.

 

There's actually canon precedent for that. In the Chuunin Exam prelims, Ino possessed her and "Inner Sakura" is what broke the possession. The whole inner thing was much more prevalent in Part 1, and basically it was a way to demonstrate how emotionally repressed she was. After the timeskip, it more or less vanished though.

 

... No it's a stupid cliche not some bloodline limit that makes her a good Kunoichi.

 

Except that she has demonstrated an ability to use "Inner Sakura" to resist mental manipulation/possession.

It's a bad plot device most of the time, but there is actual canonical basis for it.

 

It disappears in Shippuuden, and that split personality is IMHO just a repersentation of her willpower, btw if SAKURA can resist Ino's mind technique then any Jonin should be able to. We don't know how skilled Ino is with the technique, she may suck at it, or the technique revolves around the will power of the user. It isn't stated so we can simply assume.