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Oh the WHOmanity!?

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Jon, Apr 2, 2010.

  1. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    Little Chicago. ;_;
     
  2. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Errrmmm....what?
     
  3. Mindless

    Mindless Big Boss DLP Supporter

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    It burned up with his house. All his shit, remember?
     
  4. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    So... late spoiler warnings, I guess.
     
  5. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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  6. Krogan

    Krogan Alien in a Hat ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Lol fuck sorry, I'm tired and a little blitzed I thought you were talking about the member here called Little Chicago. Fail I know.
     
  7. LittleChicago

    LittleChicago Headmaster DLP Supporter

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    Not a huge fail - I was confused, too.

    Back on topic, if one can be on topic:

    The Duster.
     
  8. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    Yeah.. the Duster.

    :'(

    And the Beetle, and his staff. ;_;
     
  9. Ragon

    Ragon Dark Lord

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    his ritual supplies and all the books in the basement. The Swords?
     
  10. Rehio

    Rehio Bad Dragon ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Fuck, I never look at the name of the Forums when I'm looking through "New Posts."
     
  11. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Is the sub-basement confirmed lost, though? It might still be intact under the rubble. If nothing else, the summoning circle would probably still be there.
     
  12. The Fine Balance

    The Fine Balance Headmaster

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    The swords are all right.

    But seriously, what the hell would it take for Murphy to accept the damn things.

    Disliked that stupid Ruby. Too much of a deus ex machina. The reasoning was interesting, but did it have to be exactly what he needed? (or, at least, one of the major things that he needed.)

    On the whole, the book is awesome, despite minor flaws. Re-reading, soon.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2010
  13. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    I'd like to post some massive spoilers for general discussion. Things I thought and/or wasn't sure about.

    Can I do that here without spoiler tags or would the other thread in this sub-forum be more appropriate?

    Or would you like me to either (1) still use tags or (2) just wait on paragraphs of spoilers/discussion?

    Don't wanna piss any mods off on this one.
     
  14. The Fine Balance

    The Fine Balance Headmaster

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    Post away. No need for spoiler tags now that there is a sub-forum for Changes that explicitly states [Spoilers].
     
  15. Ched

    Ched Da Trek Moderator DLP Supporter ⭐⭐

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    Just finished the book earlier tonight. Need to do a re-read to catch all the crap I missed in my OMG!RUSH to read it the first time (I always do that).

    This will probably be TL;DR for most of you, sorry about that. I just ... started typing and didn't stop.

    A few comments for commenting on though, and yeah, just in case you missed the spoiler thread title...

    ~* MASSIVE SPOILERS *~

    Mouse
    Mouse kicked ass, hands down. I liked that he could talk, but uh, it was a bit of a kick in the mouth. I still can't seem to associate the personality Mouse displays normally with the one we saw when he was talking and calling Lea a bitch. If it was possible for me to call OC on it I would, but I can't, so I'm left marvelling. Also he 'won' Harry? Sounds like a fairly active choice on his part, did he make that decision as a pup?

    Also just how much power does Mouse have? And is it dependant on what he's fighting somehow? I mean the show he put on when he was actively threatening Lea was impressive, and she seemed surprised at the amount of whatever he displayed there, but he didn't seem nearly as deadly against the ... Ick pet Red Court thingy. But hey, maybe in that case he didn't need to be. If he was going to throw down with Lea he'd have to pull out all the stops. Interesting!

    Martin
    Turned out to be an interesting character. Triple agent for the win. He also managed to pull off the part of the morally objectionable asshole who ends up on the good guys team card quite well. I mean he practically gave the kid to the Red Court, so he's a first class douche, but ended up playing for the home team anyway. I can't help but wish Snape had turned out half as interesting.

    Thomas
    Might as well have not been in the book. Maybe I missed something but all he did was attempt to get a bit of information from Lara (which I don't think panned out because they didn't really need it), do some fighting, and call a helicopter at the end.

    I guess I'm just saying that he seemed incredibly 2-dimensional this time around. If he had been replaced by, say, Vince Graver for the information gathering bit and one of Odin's flunkies for the fighting part in South America I don't think the story would have felt much different. The drama with Molly could have been pulled off with just about any White Court vamp she happened to run into.

    I think the book was better for having Thomas play all of those roles but it just... felt flat. Not like Butcher's usual characters. Maybe on the re-read it won't.

    Harry
    Obviously isn't going to stay dead if he's even dead at all. If he is dead then hey, this is probably some kind of damned convenient way of getting out of that pesky Winter Knight job. When he 'dies' the power could return to Mab and Harry can pop up via some weirdass form of magic and be on his merry way.

    I doubt that'll happen. It's feasible and everything for the author to pull off but we haven't even had a single book yet where Harry is dealing with being the Winter Knight. I can't see it ending before it's begun.

    So who knows. I do think that he was 'killed' pretty much like Kincaid suggested. My first thought was that Ivy sent him to 'kill' Harry so that something can happen to free him from the Winter Mantle. After further thought I doubted this was it, but still an idea.

    Why does he seem to think that Mab is going to 'come for him' in such a way that he isn't going to be able to live in Chicago and have regular contact with his friends? If I recall correctly Raoul, the Summer Knight prior to Fix, lived in a reasonably normal apartment. Or at least lived in it enough to have pictures and personal possessions stored there on a semi-permanent basis. Or maybe I read it wrong. But it sure as hell seemed like he was revving up to say goodbye to people.

    Other
    Susan managed to die well, good for her. I thought that came to a nice conclusion all around.

    Eb as grandaddy!Dresden = WIN.

    Book felt rushed. It's possible that was intentional but I still noticed it. Was not bad enough to seriously detract from my enjoyment.

    I.e. Butters showing up for a couple of paragraphs to get shot and then leave. Felt rushed, like the inclusion of the character was pointless. His part wasn't big enough to feel like he had a real point in showing up but he got a bit too much action for a cameo. It gave me bad flashbacks me of a few of my issues with the handling of Codex Alera characters at times.

    I have always shipped Murphy/Dresden because I think Murphy is a kickass female character and I enjoy their interactions. Sucks for her to return to the boat and find him dead though. Can't wait to read that!

    Sanya was a hell of a lot of fun to read.

    Why didn't Harry try to hire Kincaid to help him out again? I know he was with Ivy at the time but that doesn't mean he was unable to pop off for a bit like he has in the past.

    What kind of ... uh, issues is Maggie going to have from all of this? Apart from the massive stress and various horrors she had to endure there was a lot of nasty magic flying around. Can that sort of thing influence a child's own magic (or magical inclinations) in the Dresdenverse if they turn out to be magical themselves later on?

    Harry didn't even consider the Alphas. I know this is out of their league but I'd have expected him to talk to them at least. They could have been damned useful lookouts even if they didn't engage in the heavy fighting.

    So, the knowledge his mom left him is in the form of a magical GPS yeah? Seemed like he had to touch it and think about what he wanted to get the information. However Lea said that the Ways can change every decade or two, so is his knowledge 'old' in some places or is it updating? Given the way it was introduced, as if Harry didn't gain the knowledge innately but sort of got a map, I'm guessing it will get old.

    Oh, Tilly was pretty cool. It's nice to have another interesting mortal law enforcement officer running around with some information.

    Places of the Nevernever move around right? Maybe the incredible coincidence of the Erlking's domain being at the FBI office wasn't as crazy as it seemed at first. I was playing with the idea that it was there because that was where the Nexus of the hunt for Dresden was. Or if not for Dresden, then a hunt that involves the start of a major supernatural power play. Or maybe that's total BS. Ideas! But it's just one hell of a coincidence if I don't explain it to myself somehow.

    Half of what I said is probably crap, stupid, or just unenlightened. That's fine. I just really enjoyed the book and the series, and this was the most excited I've been for a book release in a long time... and for once I wasn't disappointed in what I got. So I'm excitable and wanted to get my thoughts out. Sorry if it's TL;DR for some of ya.

    /end First Impressions.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2010
  16. Datakim

    Datakim Chief Warlock

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    I thought your comments were interesting. Some responses.

    This jumped to me aswell, it just seemed unlike Mouse. Though strictly speaking it does make some sense in that Mouse essentially grew up with Harry and as such would likely have taken on some of his mannerisms like being a wise-ass and being willing to go against strong enemies and defy rules.

    I wonder if we will get more Mouse!talk in the future. Even if Harry cannot actually talk the same "language", there is nothing stopping him from teaching Mouse morse code for example. We know that Harry speaks it since he communicated with Eb that way, and Mouse could presumably do the same by tapping with his paw.

    Maybe Eb will use necromancy and the Blackstaff to raise him from the dead. Heck maybe Eb shot him in the first place to free him from Mab with the intention to raise him later.

    I actually wonder why he never did this to Maggie, his daughter. We know its possible from Kemmler and Kumori. It is evil black magic true, but the Blackstaff would presumably shield him the way it protected him from the corruption of killing those humans in this book.

    Yeah, I think it would be interesting to see Harry as the knight, and the consequences and everything that will come from that.

    Possibly he figured that after all that has happened and how long he refused Mab, she would want to take full advantage of her power over Harry and demonstrate her "ownership" fully. The case with Raoul/Fix might not be the same. For one, Summer gives the appearance of being "kinder" so it makes sense they would let their knights have more freedom. Not to mention that Raoul was old and Titania was probably bored with him giving him more freedom, and Fix is a close friend of Lily.

    Still, I doubt Harry would be totally cut off from his friends, and maybe Mab won't work him to the death.

    I have been thinking about why Mab wanted Harry to be the knight in the first place so badly that she "crippled" winter by not replacing the old knight for so long. Presumably there are other wizards out there who Mab could have recruited. Heck, with her resources she could have just found some mortal wizard kid just coming to his powers and raised him, avoiding the baggage Harry has with the Council and so on.

    Seems to me that there has to be something very unique about Harry for Mab to want him so badly. The only thing we know is that Harry is an outsiderbane and has power over outsiders. Mab would presumably know about this through Lea since she would have likely watched the confrontation between HWWB and Harry. Heck, maybe Mab was the one to tell Harrys mother the power rituals&circumstances to create an outsiderbane.

    If you had a gun that was both very rare or even unique, and specially designed to work best at a single unique enemy, would you risk losing that gun by using it against every enemy, or would you keep that gun safely in reserve until the time came to face that unique enemy, using more common weapons against more common opponents.

    I suspect that Mab won't throw Harry at Summer or other enemies and risk losing him, rather I think Mab has some reason to suspect that outsiders are going to pose a danger to her/Winter, and Harry!outsiderbane is her ace in the hole. Just a theory there, but if true it might excuse Mab giving Harry more freedom than he expects, allowing for more free Harry (which would be more interesting to read about rathen than slave!Harry).


    Explains some things. Though now I cannot help but wonder who exactly was the grandmother? Or maybe is? Maybe Harry's grandma is still alive somewhere. Heck, Maybe it's Mab! (EW!). Hmm, wait a moment, what if Harry got Mab pregnant during the Winter Knight ritual!

    Likely intentional to try and showcase Harry's state of mind.

    Well, he fell in the water so unless Murphy actually saw it happen, she might well think that Harry's absence&blood were actually signs of Mab coming and taking Harry away.

    Glad he did not die. :)

    Likely he could not afford Kincaids price. Assuming that Kincaid would even have left Ivy. I think their relationship has grown a lot closer and Kincaid might not be willing to leave her alone after what happened with the Denarians and all.

    Magic is normally inherited through the mother and Susan was not a wizard so odds are that little Maggie won't be either. Though the mental trauma would likely be horrific. She watched her family get torn apart by the reds, and then was taken by them(horrible monsters) to be sacrificed in a blood ritual.

    Still, Forthill likely knows about cases like this and likely has experts to look after her and help her recover. The fact that she is Harry's daughter would only make him want to help her more. Still, you never know. She might end up some crazy drug-using prostitute. That would suck.

    Possibly because he got one of them killed in the last book, making him uneasy about bringing them into this.

    This actually did not come from nowhere but was foreshadowed rather nicely in Turn Coat where Luccio tells Harry about Maggie knowing more about Ways and how she could be "in Beijing at breakfast, Rome at lunch, and Seattle for supper and stop for coffee in Sydney and Capetown in between.". And it makes sense to me that she would want that knowledge to survive and be available to her son if needed. Possible that given time, Harry will learn from her example and start making his own map, or upgrading the map he already has when necessary.

    Tilly was nice, Rudy less so. I want something horrible and supernatural to happen to him that Murphy could have saved him from but did not because he got her fired.
     
  17. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box ~ Prestige ~

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    Do we have any way of knowing Maggie would have come back 'normal'? IIRC, we've only really seen zombies of one sort or another brought back, and presumably Eb wouldn't want that...
     
  18. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Nah, we've seen Kumori do a proper resurrection. Fairly easily too, it seemed.

    But I think you people are misunderstanding the role of the Blackstaff. It isn't that the White Council has said to Eb "Hey, you can use black magic. Go nuts, do whatever you like." It's a role with specific purpose, and Eb knows this. In fact, I'm willing to bet that the reason he has the position in the first place is that he's not the kind of person who would go around chucking around black magic like candy the moment he's allowed to.
     
  19. Jon

    Jon The Demon Mayor Admin DLP Supporter

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    To a guy who only recently died, yeah.
     
  20. Tehan

    Tehan Avatar of Khorne DLP Supporter

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    Resurrecting his grandson and apprentice who is also an extremely heavy hitter for the White and Grey councils isn't exactly 'chucking around black magic like candy'...