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Pet Peeves v.6? Maybe.

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Dark Syaoran, Mar 28, 2012.

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  1. Japboix1

    Japboix1 Second Year

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    I've got two pet peeves that the whole Dumbledore vs. Voldemort argument reminded me of.

    Fics where Harry does like a month or two of 'training' (usually involving getting new clothes, listening to heavy metal, and learning to be romantic in addition to all that extra practice he does, all with his new 'untraceable' wand) and suddenly can out duel Aurors and Death Eaters piss me off. Seriously, one summer of training where he doesn't even train all the time and he becomes stronger than Voldemort who took years to become as powerful as he was, even as a prodigy?

    Oh, also stories where he works out for a week and suddenly he's got the body of a greek god.
     
  2. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    One peeve I have is that every GoF AU or GoF time-travel re-do still has Harry use Gillyweed.

    Okay, I get it, it's useful. But I'd really love to watch Harry utilise something that involves more skill than the ability to swallow something. IMO the judges really should have scored Harry lower: Gillyweed might be effective, but it doesn't exactly showcase general skill.

    How about this:

    Harry learns the Bubble-head charm for breathing underwater.

    He uses a warming charm to stay warm.

    He brews a "strengthening potion" or "endurance draught", or whatever cool potion the author can come up with, to make him strong enough to swim quickly for an hour underwater.

    He investigates charms for finding things and uses them to find the Merepeople, rather than being told.

    This is far more impressive than swallowing a plant.
     
  3. samkar

    samkar Temporarily Banhammered

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    About the duel argument I follow the power factor and a good fic example where it's done as believable as possible from my pov is The Potter Conspiracy by Dark Lord Mike. Here Harry concentrated on very few offensive curses and overpowered them. His defense was quite nice too and it was effective to some degree. I really enjoyed the raw and gritty fights in this story.

    If you don't know the story try to live through the clunky beginning because it gets really good. My only real problem with the story is the insane Voldemort characterizing and that he never completed it.
     
  4. Portus

    Portus Heir

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    First of all, the ability to swallow something can not be overestimated. I was gonna post demonstrative links but I'm at work and all and prefer to keep my job.

    Now of course you were looking for that kind of response when posted, but the point of the Gillyweed in GoF (and, I assume, in any worthwhile GoF AU) is not the Gillyweed itself, rather the How of it's being offered and the effects beyond the actual gills.

    The "how" goes to the central plot of GoF - that Harry is out of his depth (no pun initially intended) and needs help, and that help is orchestrated (masterfully, I might add) by Crouch Jr. In just the second task, young Barty maneuvers first Cedric, then Neville (unsuccessfully), and finally Dobby into helping Harry with the Task, keeping any and all suspicion away from himself. Plus, there is the additional benefit of focusing Snape's suspicions on Harry for the theft of the Polyjuice ingedients.

    The useful effects beyond the gills are rarely mentioned, but Harry not only doesn't have to use the same Charm as Fleur and Cedric, or be able to perform self-Transfiguration like Krum, he also has webbed hands and flipper-like feet, allowing him to swim loads faster than the others. Of course, the literary benefit is that the time limit of Gillyweed places an added emphasis on getting down and back up for not only the "prize" but his own safety as well.

    And yes, I understand that more than "Gillyweed is too easy," you mean, "I'd like the author to be creative," but your example?

    That. to me, is actually even more boring and uncreative than reusing the Gillyweed with a different way of getting it to him;

    Gah. This reeks of the worst that Indy!Harry fics have to offer.

    And not only is this completely unnecessary -

    [ Of course they're at the bottom of the lake; why on earth would anyone think that the dangers must be faced anywhere but the deepest, darkest part, and have Harry just go down, down, down? They're not going to be trapped in the shallow surf on the opposite shore, where a mild riptide is the biggest danger, FFS. It's a storytelling device as rudimentary and time-honored as "the black guy doesn't make it" and "the stupid blonde will fall while running from the killer." ]

    - but IMO every reasonable HP story must involve him needing (1) a degree of luck and (2) a modicum of help from somewhat sympathetic and possibly unwilling bystanders and/or participants.

    In almost every book, Harry met and either tried to befriend (or at least had empathy for) a magical creature (or human) being treated as a second-class citizen in one sense or another. Centaurs, Muggleborns, House Elves, Werewolves, Merfolk, Half-Giants, Part-Veela (okay, not difficult), Giants, Thestrals, Goblins, Dragons, Ghosts, etc. Hell, if he'd met Aragog under other circumstances, Harry would've been perfectly accepting (though not on the level of Hagrid).

    My point is that it's part of the charm of the books (for me, anyway) that Harry, while avoiding asking adults for help (a YA staple) nonetheless needs help from somewhere, and the "unexpected, nick-of-time help from an unlikely source" is something that I love, love, love.

    Despite all I've written ^above, I have two worthy examples of GoF AUs and Second Tasks, both by jbern:

    (1) The Inner Eye of Harry Potter - It's a decent, well-thought-out story (as-yet incomplete) disguised as pure crack, and chapter four covers the Triwizard. Divination-True-Believer!Harry gets his swerve on in preparation for the Second Task, and I really enjoyed the creative thinking this Harry uses. He's the very definition of an outside-the-box thinker. Oh, and chapter five is especially poignant, given its Flowers for Algernon inspiration. Jbern's stuff isn't lyrical or earth-shattering but he tells a fucking great story, and I wish he was still writing HP stuff.

    (2) The Lie I've Lived - I've mentioned it an inordinate number of times lately, and decided to re-read the best parts today. The addition of Harry turns the Triwizard into a six-way battle, with more and wholly different tasks, and IMO the duels are excellent. Great story, and I still hold out a flicker of hope for the sequel.
     
  5. Skeletaure

    Skeletaure Magical Core Enthusiast ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Right. I was talking about fanfic, not canon. Gillyweed is appropriate for canon Harry, because he's out of his depth etc. I was talking about the many fics that include either a much more competent Harry or a Harry from the future who has already defeated Voldemort. In these fics it's somewhat jarring that Harry should still use the "I'm out of my depth" option.
     
  6. El Duderino

    El Duderino Groundskeeper

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    I dunno, I reckon the use of Gillyweed can really add something, especially if Harry returns before the hour mark, so that he is forced to stay below, and shit goes down there, or if he get's stuck after the hour mark, and has no way to breathe.

    The use of Gillyweed also shows the genius that is Crouch Jr., because, like Portus said, Crouch really does do it well, with several back up plans and the like.
     
  7. Japboix1

    Japboix1 Second Year

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    I actually find that authors who use the bubblehead charm put no effort into the second task. It's usually 1-2 paragraphs long with them basically saying "Harry rescued his person, possibly rescued Gabrielle, and got out of the water." No creativity at all.
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2012
  8. SilverOtter

    SilverOtter Seventh Year

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    Fanfics that have Sirius crying/screaming/etc when given the truth serum (can't spell it). It was of my understanding that you use a completely emotionless tone under it and simply answer questions.

    I've seen fanfics where someone asks a question "What happened that night?" and he goes into a fucking 4 paragraph story on what happened. Surely that's a bit retarded. IMO you should only be able to ask Yes/No questions and they should be unable to say anything but Yes/No while under the effects of it.
     
  9. El Duderino

    El Duderino Groundskeeper

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    I was under the impression that it just stopped you from lying, so the person under influence could say what they liked when related to the question, as long as they were telling the truth. Emotional response however, reeks of fangirls. Real men don't cry... Much...
     
  10. Evon

    Evon Seventh Year

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    In GoF, Crouch Jr gave a full confession under Veritaserum, so according to canon it isn't just used for Yes or No questions. Though, the book does mention that Crouch speaks in an emotionless/monotonous voice.

    I've always understood Veritaserum to be a sort of compulsion magic that makes a person tell the truth, when asked a question.
     
  11. SilverOtter

    SilverOtter Seventh Year

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    Meh, I'll have to go back and re-read that chapter. I don't seem to remember him saying too much without being prompted or asked another question for further clarification.

    Still, I've always preferred stories that have Veritaserum confessions being less-descriptive unless asked a very direct question about a certain aspect of something.
     
  12. Japboix1

    Japboix1 Second Year

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    I always figured that people under veritaserum could lie through omission, which is the only way I can think of it not being reliable. Hence why nobody did took easy way out of just having everyone at Hogwarts who saw Wormtail just admit that they did, which would have saved Sirius from eating rats and being on the run.
     
  13. T3t

    T3t Purple Beast of DLP ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    I'm not sure how a lie of omission could have distorted the truth of those events. Plot continuity was never JKR's strong suit.
     
  14. enembee

    enembee The Nicromancer DLP Supporter

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    Like all magic in Harry Potter, Veritiserum is not infallible and thus people don't rely on it.
     
  15. Thaumologist

    Thaumologist Fifth Year ~ Prestige ~

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    Undoing everything. Whether through time travel, development of god-like powers, or whatever.

    It makes me annoyed that I sunk in the time to read the fic, if at the end, none of it happens, except to a single character (or two). In this case, and normally, it is used when the protagonist is in a no-win situation, or where winning is such a pyrrhic victory it isn't worthwhile. And I can sort of get that.

    But it ruins what I just read. I was enjoying reading it, up until that point, and had tagged it up as a 'possibly re-read in the future', but the ending means I won't get as much out of a second read-through.
     
  16. Japboix1

    Japboix1 Second Year

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    I want to add Wonder when they mean wander to this list. I just read this mistake at least 5 times today and it's been bugging me.

    ---------- Post automerged at 09:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

    See that's why it confused me. If this truth serum is so great, why the hell does no one use this on former death eaters or shit like that? There must be some flaw with it if it's not reliable to use in a situation like that.
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2012
  17. El Duderino

    El Duderino Groundskeeper

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    BITCHES GOT MONEY. Death Eaters escape through bribery, and name giving.
     
  18. enembee

    enembee The Nicromancer DLP Supporter

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    This truth serum is not 'so great'.
     
  19. Evon

    Evon Seventh Year

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    Over use of commas (or absolutely no use of commas) drives me nuts, along with fucked up punctuation in general! I'm not the best at grammar myself, but at least I don't mangle my writing to hell and attempt to pass it off as something readable. Some of the shit people post now days make me want to pull my hair out.
     
  20. Japboix1

    Japboix1 Second Year

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    Thank you for finding that. So many canon events make sense now XD
     
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