Discussion in 'Politics' started by ScottPress, Aug 8, 2015.
To people from countries other than Poland:
There is no hope here, please send help.
I'm wondering what Grzegorz Schetyna is doing, because Petru is all business on TV, usurping the post of most prominent of opposition leaders.
Xandrel, we may have reached the point where help would just be wasting resources. I say let's raze the Parliament to the ground and start anew. Or just assassinate Kaczyński and make it look like an erotic asphyxiation accident. That always works, right?
Edit: PiS leadership right now.
Not assassinate - hang him like a common criminal. I always said that the greatest tragedy of Smoleńsk was that Jarosław was not on board that day.
Well, it all may be a moot point. When Putin takes over Poland, Kaczyński will be among the first executed.
So, the Speaker pulled off his chicken shit move after all. Press access has been restricted, despite Kaczynski and the President and the one of the PiS press secretaries (for the govt, I think? can't recall atm) all telling everyone for three days that no changes would be enacted until Jan 1st. The plenary hall gallery has been closed, citing a ruling of then Speaker Komorowski from 2008 that the gallery only be accessible to press when the Sejm is in session, a rule that no one cared about because it was stupid.
Thank you, President Komorowski, for your extraordinarily underwhelming service to the country, couldn't even learn English to not look silly when meeting with Barrack Obama.
Yesterday, FC Barcelona - PSG 6:1.
Today, Tusk - Kaczyński 27:1.
Finally some good news.
OTOH as much as it galls me, Tusk is seemingly the only one that had a realistic chance to get other parties to rally against PIS in the next elections, and him being arguably closest to the 'President of the EU' doesn't really matter much for Poland. Aside from bile of the current shitpile of a government there's little upside from it, methinks.
He'll have an easy time getting presidency in 2020 if he wanted to, coming on the white house of successful presidency of the EU if he wanted to, tho.
This makes me happy if for no other reason than to see Kaczynski's labored mouth-breathing while he expresses his disappointment. This guy is just bad news for the country and he'll stay in politics until he drops dead, unfortunately. Where is Alzheimer's when you need it?
PiS proclaiming moral victory in the state-owned propaganda television is the cherry on top - how they are defenders of democracy and rule of law and the rest of EU just want to trampel all over it, oh the irony :facepalm
Of course nothing will change here in Poland and multi-speed Europe is certain at this point. By its own design, PiS-rulled-Poland will be left in the dust and when economy will start to break down and we'll end like Greece, PiS will still claim that this is an attack upon sovereignty of Poland.
But well, for the people to see that PiS remaining in power is death of Poland, they need to rule to the end of current term and the economy need to bank hard, so hard that the middle class and all those that say they aren't interested in politics will feel it. Maybe then they will understand that not voting or voting for nationalist party will not work in the current world.
A funny example of who both sides of political conflict lie from today's protest march in Warsaw.
The police, controlled by the ruling party, says there is only 9 thousands people in it. They decided to not even round it up to 10 because it would be too much.
The city council controlled by the opposition says there is 50 thousands people.
How many people really are in it? Well, most likely the average of these two though I would say it's closer to 20-25 than 30.
Well I would say that 9k is about right, I live at Przechodnia 2 (building is at pl. Bankowy) where this march stared. There is no way there is 75, 50 hell even 20k would be too much.
If you are going to say that police i control by PiS, they say that Warsaw City Council is fully control by PO. What more playing with numbers is Polish past time at the moment done by all. Remember Independent March when numbers went from 100k to 10k ect.
But talking about all this I will say this much, the fact that you can march, yell your protests shows that Poland is doing fine. What more free speech is doing more the fine (lies and miss information from all politic directions), no one is being arrested and no citizen is being denny his/hers right. Even PiS taking over our highest court did noting to Polish ppl (press and opposition is telling different story but pleas give me one fact, one real thing that PIS did that your freedom is bing restricted)
To all ppl that are not from Poland believe me that democracy is working here as well as in USA. Just politician are being politician, they yell, break some laws and act as idiots.
More imported than this march is bat shit eduction reform and teachers protest but that is no selling too well so media are not interested that much.
I'm not sure why you're pointing out since I did say it was controlled by opposition. In a part you quoted.
That's horrible assumption. Just because you don't feel any immediate repercussion of their action, doesn't mean there aren't any consequences.
At the moment PiS can pass any law, not matter how unconstitutional, and the Tribunal will say it's not against the constitution.
If that's not worrying for you then I can only guess it's because you agree with everything that PiS is doing and planning to do. In that case, ask yourself if you would be just as carefree about it if it was someone you disagree with that could do the same.
Lack of short to mid term effects for "real people" doesn't invalidate the erosion of the independence of one of the three branches of government. The Tribunal is our highest court. It is vitally fucking important that it is as independent from the executive and the legislative as realistically possible.
I am in no way surprised that Brussels is shitting on our government.
Cuz the leading party and main organization of this March was PO it is importend to point it out.
Let start with this, you are saying it is important but I did not hear you protest when PO pick addition ppl for it before theirs term was up and broke the law. Court is not independent cuz they have term limits and are picked by politician and as proven they have extremely class ties with them.
Next our constitution court is not USA Supreme court. It's role is vastly smaller, and if you don't know (as I know it is a secret in Poland) every PM and his ppl broke constitutions many times. From not having military spending up to a set limit, to going over limit of our country spending(then changing how count it as to avid problems with our constitutions) to blandly robing it citizens form theirs savings to save ZUS.
What more, our constitutions was written in 97 and is were open ended, and that means you can get a room full of judges and all of them will have different opinion about it.
This is just plain stupid, for EU and for us. If you were happy that Tusk was elected 27 to 1 it shows how little you know. It is bad for all of us. Tusk should be elected 14 to 13, Poland would save face and EU would get what it wanted. But now what reason Kaczynski have to support anything in EU, he will just veto all and every time he will lose. Thanks to that he will win next election and PO will lose. This is bad for EU too, the worst treatment Poland will get the easier it will be to extremist in different country's to get support.
PO did broke the law and the Tribunal nullified their picks. Then PiS decided it's not enough and completely destroyed its legitimacy by forcing their unlawful picks.
And? Because others did it is suppose to give PiS or any party an excuse for doing the same?
Every law is up to interpretation. That's why it's important to have a group of people with a recognized authority that decide which one is the closest to its spirit.
Unfortunately, for any other outcome of this situation we would need a foreign minister that could make deals with countries that aren't fictional.
Don't look down on República Popular Democrática de San Escobar! They will provide Poland with helicopters and Jalapeno rockets!
For me our Constitutions is a joke, it was broken, is broken and will be. But what I am angry about it this. Ppl acting like this is end of the world cuz PiS is doing it. I hate double standards cuz they lead hate and racist. The whole march was not for freedom (like I said before no one lost any true freedom here cuz of PiS) it was I hate PiS March and I am ok with that. But pleas stop with lies ect.
Kaczyniski is a Idiot, Macierewicz scares me. But stop acting as Tusk, Petru or anyone is better from then. At the moment our best "Poseł" is Liroy and that is sad(He was/is best polish Raper). We do have some good ppl out there and even PiS had some good ideas(like 500+ it really helps many ppl and most off them are not trash, or fighting VAT thief's) but if we don't stop believing in lies that media and politics tells us we will never get them elected.
This was on Tusk and Merkl side, but they chose to (and I believe it is rather Tusk then Merkl) show Kaczyniski his place. That was a mistake if that happens more often base on this he can build a exit vote here fast.
Last thing can we all stooped acting as this what is going on in our country Nazi move or something. Cuz that is for Germans not Poles, really.
PS. Can a Mode change name of this thread to Polish Politics as I think it would suit it better
No. They needed to show to others that Kaczyński is no one. That he can't do anything in EU. And they've done it. They have shown Eastern Europe, that you need to play by the rules if you want money. Lets be honest. Do you really think that anyone will side with Poland and its "principles" over Germany and France and their economies? Poland joined the EU club - this means it accepted its rules. And sometimes clubs get rowdy members that needs some reminder about the rules and how they are made. It's good that we were shown only that, instead of the exit doors.
As for double standards - newsflash! They are a feature of politics and they aren't going to disappear because you throw a hissy fit about them. You need to accept it and work with it.
Actually, no. I much prefer to overreact and try to stop things before we reach a point when we have actual murderous party as our overlords.
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