I'm revving up to write a Naruto fan fiction but there is one problem.

Naruto and clones. Its been done and done and done but.. you can't have a story about Naruto and not have clones. I've seen many different versions of how the shadow clone technique can be used and manipulated and all of them always focus on the learning capability and the 1,000 clone beat down.

As a minor plot point I want to focus on the changes that can occur if/when Naruto uses his clones to much. Either in mass or constantly having a few running around constantly, clones learning etc. It can be extremely minor things that can just build up until it becomes a major problem.

Ex. Naruto creates a thousand clones while his butt itches then ALL the clones try and relieve the itch. Which could lead to Naruto having such a build up of relieve when he scratched his ass that he can't go without it.

Id rather this not be made into a what Naruto CAN do with clones and what he CAN'T do. Lets leave that up to the individual writers and focus more on the not so obvious problems(Or benefits) that can occur. Any random thoughts or craziness accepted.

 

Hm... Well, if you're looking for a means of limiting the whole FiveYearsInADay!Training aspect of it, I've always like the idea of using and dispelling too many overloading the mind. Basically, if Naruto creates a thousand clones and dispels them all at once after an extended period of time, he blacks out for a while. He also doesn't get any of the training back- it's pretty much lost in the void of his unconsciousness.

He also can't dispel them in groups, because the strain on his mind doesn't go away until he goes to sleep and assimilates all of the clone info, thus it wouldn't be practical because they'd just run out of chakra and dispel after a while, causing Naruto to black out and lose all of his training.

So basically, Naruto's limited to only doing the whole training thing with a handful of kage bunshin at a time. Definitely a major advantage, to be sure, but not nearly as game breaking as it is in cannon.

 

We've seen Naruto use hundreds of them during his 'graduation', so limiting the amount he can make would only work in a story that starts at that point or earlier.

I agree with Menace, a combination of time and amount should be the limiting factor. A couple of hundred clones for a short fight are manageable, but keeping them running or even training for several hours is ridiculous. There are several possible reasons for that, you could simply call it overload or go on and elaborate. Dispelling multiple clones at once completely jumbles their memories, or he instantly experiences everything they did, leading him to relive every single thing their senses picked up, not just what they actually did.

If you want to go with drawbacks instead of limitations there are again several possibilities. Naruto could have to vividly remember every single death and the pain that comes with it, or his clones could slowly develop different personalities over time, might refuse to obey his orders or take the initiative. You could just split his personality along with his consciousness, so that one clone is extremely friendly and the next harbors all of Naruto's negative emotions. Or have his clones be directly linked to his chakra supply, so that even one of them could completely wipe him out.

Another thing I'd like to read is someone taking the 'splitting his consciousness' thing literally, so that Naruto experiences everything his clones do without any kind of delay. Think 'In Essence Devided', which does this brilliantly.

 

Another thing that I always found weird, and annoys me is Naruto's use of a thousand clones even in beginning of the story (after graduation). Hell, if he could be using a thousand clones every fight, he would. But his chakra capacity isn't THAT big (took extreme circumstances for him to summon that many, and if there's any type of constant drain, I doubt it would be for long). So, limiting the amount of clones he can use is a good start. Not 1,000, not 100, but like 10 :S (If he's training with them).

Also, I want to disagree with the point you can't have a Naruto story without his clones. Sure you can. No forbidden scroll incident = no Kage Bunshin. That technique is so boring now

Edit: Ninja'd

 

I didn't explain what I was looking for well enough. Having limits or having drawbacks are simple to create.

What I'm really looking for is the mental or psychological changes.

This is a good example but it can be taken farther. He could start to feel a phantom pain after a clone is killed, lasting until the wound would of healed naturally. He could start to actually fear using his clones because he doesn't want to die again and again. Or taken even further he starts to NOT fear death. Getting himself into more dangerous situations and taking more risks.

Another idea I had is that he develops an addiction to creating clones. This can be spun in a few different directions. Could coincide with my earlier example too.

But your forgetting that the only other clone technique that would be available to Naruto would be the regular clone technique which is pretty bad and easy to notice from a trained ninja. Whats a ninja that can't fool another ninja? A dead ninja.

 

Why does there need to be mental and psychological drawbacks? I've already ready a story that did that and the concept doesn't appeal to me at all.

 

Oh, I don't know...because that's what the OP is asking for? This isn't about what you find appealing knight504.

I'm intrigued by the idea. Here's just one crazy idea I thought of on the spot: The longer a clone is left, the more it starts to deviate from naruto's personality. Or rather different clones, deviate differently from naruto's personality based on circumstances, environment, etc. And when the clone is dispelled, that personality shift is combined with naruto's own personality. So he experiences short sudden but slight changes in personality whenever a clone is dispelled.

 

Which story?

I've found stories where the little details, which feel well thought out make the story more enjoyable.

Whats this?

~Edit

Yes, very interesting. Idea's like that are what I'm looking for.

 

God forbid I give an opinion. I don't see a problem with asking why the OP would want something like this.

Karma's Web by Copper Clouds. Not something I'd recommend though it's well-written from what I remember.

I think the gist of the Shadow Clone aspect was that Naruto remembered everything when his clones die (including their death), which he repressed as long as he could so that it wouldn't affect him in during missions or on a day-to-day basis. He has two breakdowns from it as a result. I couldn't point out where these occur though and it's a long fic.

 

I've got a few ideas for interesting after-effects of shadow clones. Though be aware that the last two wouldn't work with canon mechanics. I for one would be interested in seeing them put into action though.

1) Extreme memory retention. The more shadow clones are used, the more information is shoved into Naruto's head, and because of the manner it's inserted, his mind can't forget it. Basically, the more shadow clones are used, the less room in his head he has to actually think. This could be rather interesting if you explore the effects of it. For example, it would likely take him significantly longer to complete a thought regarding a memory, due to having to search for it through so much junk. There's also the psychological ramifications of being unable to forget data points like that, especially traumatic ones, like the clone dying in a horrific fashion for example.

2) Personality fracture. Clones are distinct individuals that diverge from Naruto at the moment of creation. From there, they do their own thing and when dispelled the changes to their personality combine with Naruto's. Do this long enough and Naruto's mind starts to fracture, leading to MPD and the like. Once that sets in, maybe have clones get randomly assigned a personality from the list (with a weight towards the currently active one).

3) Brain-splitting. The idea is that Naruto only has one mind, and it's fragmented between every clone he makes. Think of it as the reverse of the Geth from Mass Effect, if you know what I'm talking about. The more clones there are, the less intelligent and effective they (including the original) become, until once past a certain threshold they stop being able to handle autonomous functions like breathing. With this approach, you're probably looking at the 5-10 range as being the limit for neglibile ability loss, and around 30-40 before combat-effectiveness disappears. Any more than that and they're basically all vegetables.

4) Last idea I have is that the clones are literal automatons. There's no imprint of personality on creation, leading to, essentially, soulless meatbags to perform their function. Receiving the memory of such a thing would probably be enough to scar Naruto for life, leading to swearing off the technique, but then attempting to use it in highly negative emotional stages (such as Jiraiya's death). There could be some interesting stuff happen aftwards.

 

1) seems like the best idea if we want to stay canon-compliant to how Shadow Clones work. Granted, tossing canon out the window is an option, if the OP wants to go that route.

If we're sticking to how Shadow Clones work in Naruto canon, well, we already know that his clone-training sessions knocked him out for (as I recall) about an hour or so every time he dispelled all his clones. If you wanted to inject some realism, have Naruto suffer the actual medical effects of repeatedly knocked out for that long (contrary to what movies/TV will tell you, being unconscious for more than a minutes is a very bad thing). Something like cumulative brain damage would fit under the category of physical (and indirectly, psychological) drawbacks to clone-spam training.

 

Link please, that sounds interesting?

 

In Essence Devided, Taure's contest contribution in February.

 

In Essence Divided. Basic spelling, dudes.

On topic though, I like the idea of having Naruto remember each and every clone's death, to the point where he goes through a psychological breakdown followed by a 'fearlessness' of death. Perhaps have him have an identity crisis where he can't tell whether he's a clone or the original, and with a lead up of clones thinking the same thing before it begins to get to Naruto.

 

I've actually written the start of a story based on this idea, though the clone doesn't dispel. It's very much a character study, something that focuses on who Naruto is and how this a clone of him could deviate based on its circumstances.

There isn't much of the story but it might interest the people in this thread. [Link]

 

I wonder if it would be possible for Naruto learn bad or wrong habits from clones.

Like for example, he decides to practise something using 500 clones. Except he has a flawed understanding of what he is planning on practising, and as a result so do all the clones. So when Naruto starts training, he and all his clones are practising something totally incorrectly.

Later, when this is discovered, Naruto could find it extremely difficult to learn to do whatever he did wrong in the correct way, since he now has months or even years of instinct/habit in doing it the wrong way to unlearn. To avoid this, he would need supervision, but its not easy for a single sensei to supervise hundreds of clones, forcing Naruto to limit their numbers.


Could Naruto end up spoiled rotten through the use of clones. I mean it would certainly be tempting to have clones do all your cleaning and cooking and so on. I wonder what the long term effects would be, if Naruto basically started using clones as a sort of disposable "slave species" to do all the menial chores while he himself goes to have fun. Can clones disobey their creator? Could Narutos clones actually rebel if mistreated long enough. And even if not, would this kind of abusive power over those under Narutos "command" teach bad behavioural traits to Naruto that could end up biting him in the rear eventually. Like for example, if he was put in command over real people who would not need to obey him like that. Not exactly a way to limit clone training but a potential clone related problem anyway.

Then again, in a way this is exactly what happened with rasengan. Naruto found a loophole via clones to use the technique in an inferior way, and then was too lazy to train further until he could do it on his own, choosing instead to continue depending on a clone to always do half the work in forming a rasengan, even though it slowed/weakened the technique a lot.


I wonder why only Naruto was shown to use clones for training in canon. Its a valid way now that Kakashi had Naruto do it, and yet we never have a single suggestion that anyone else uses it. I mean Kakashi for example was shown to be able to use clones, but we never get the idea that he uses them like that. Obviously Kakashi could not use them to the extent Naruto does, but surely even one clone would help, and Kakashi was shown to be able to do that. And given how he is always fainting from chakra loss, there are surely others who could create more.

This could perhaps be used as an excuse for some negative effects from clone training that Kyuubi protects/heals Naruto from. But maybe this could be said to result in some other effect such as Kyuubi growing stronger in Narutos mind or the seal weakening or something. This would actually be a valid in-world excuse for why Jiraiya never had Naruto use this kind of training, since as someone far more skilled at seals than Kakashi, he realised that Naruto doing this would be dangerous in some unknown way.

We have recently learned that clones are all connected to the real Kyuubi somehow (a specific clone communicates with the real Kyuubi and gains chakra from him in the fight against Madara). Could using clones to train until they are mentally exhausted weaken each one and possibly allow a still at the time hostile Kyuubi to implant thoughts/ideas in the minds of each one or something. Thoughts which would then return to the real Naruto, magnified significantly due to the number of clones.


You could potentially even have external problems from this too that are not directly related to the technique itself. I mean I could see the other rookies being pretty jealous of Naruto being able to train weeks/months every single day. Some like Kiba or Sasuke would probably be massively jealous of Naruto being able to super-train this way, while they cannot. And even the better people like Lee and Hinata might feel some resentment at Narutos massively unfair advantage over them. Using clones like this might realistically end up costing Naruto his friendships. It might also result in other problems if say Sasuke uses his sharingan to copy the technique out of jealousy, and then tries to use it and (nearly) kills himself as a result. I mean even if Kakashi tries to explain the danger and why Sasuke cannot be taught the technique, would Sasuke who does not know about Kyuubi really believe that the "dead last" has chakra reserves so much greater than he does? And if Naruto learned it in an hour or so from a scroll, would it really be all that hard for Sasuke to copy it with the sharingan. Heck, the fact he did not copy it in canon is almost a loophole in itself.

Or worse, have Naruto, not realising the true danger of the technique thanks to his own huge chakra levels, teaching it to someone who demands/asks it of him (Kiba comes to mind again, or maybe Hinata hoping to become strong clan heir and impress her father), only to have the technique prove fatal. Can you imagine the reactions if Naruto were to accidentally kill Hinata this way for example. Or the reaction from Naruto himself.

 

Some of these ideas are cliched, and some are from random stories I read, but I'll throw them out there.

1) Part of the reason the Kage Bunshin was in the forbidden scroll. When you use the shadow clone technique, you create an exact double of you. Not someone that looks like you. Not someone who acts like you. Another you, down to the last verbal tic. If the original is a coward and is afraid of dying, then that fear is passed onto the clone. And sometimes, in order to save its 'existance', it will turn on its user and kill them, so that they would not be sent out to die.

2) As a learning technique, it's really crappy at learning complicated technical skills. If you were learning a difficult jutsu, and assigned a couple clones to each step of the technique, when they dispelled you would get the steps in no particular order. Not particularly good for something you want to use on the battlefield.

3) Releasing a thousand training clones at once doesn't comatize you. It LIQUIFIES YOUR BRAIN.

4) Creating kage bunshin is different than making earth or water clones. Shadow clones split yourself--your chakra is split evenly (which has never been clear in my head. Does the technique do that normally, or did Naruto do that to counter-act the Byakugan. He is sometimes capable of genius), as is your soul. Not normally an issue, but Jinchuuriki have a Tailed Beast sealed in their soul. Splitting a jinchuuriki's soul weakens the seal, either allowing the Kyuubi a better/easier chance to get free, or each time he uses mass shadow clones, his soul gets...contaminated? Each use makes him more ruthless, more feral, until practically nothing of his humanity is left.

 

We're never given any impression that it was something Naruto does specifically. It's implied that it's a part of the technique which makes sense since it's described as creating a "true copy".

 

It's explicitly stated that shadow clones split the character's chakra between the original and the clones. It's in one of the discussions with Ebisu, iirc.

 

Where? The conversation Ebisu and Naruto has after the prelims doesn't mention shadow clones at all; they're specifically talking about the regular clone technique.

The first time it's mentioned that chakra is distributed evenly between shadow clones is during the Naruto/Neji fight.