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Voldemort vs Orochimaru

Discussion in 'Fanfic Discussion' started by Andrela, Jul 27, 2014.

  1. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Decided to create a thread, because the group wasn't going anywhere.

    This is the original premise I've sent to several members of DLP:

    And here are their replies:

    Eilyfe:

    Nauro:

    CheddarTrek:

    Roarian:

    Please, discuss.

    I'd like some issues getting sorted out.

    1. The Mind Arts (Legilimency and Occlumency) vs Genjutsu.

    2. Orochimaru's finite Chakra Supply vs Voldemort's infinite magic.

    3. Orochimaru's better physical strength/stamina vs Voldemort's Apparition.

    If you can think of anything more, please do write it down.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  2. VanRopen

    VanRopen Headmaster

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    One thing to consider may be just how useful most ninjutsu would be against Voldemort. Can he spell himself immune to fire? Will an Imperturbable Charm/Impervious Charm/Unbreakable Charm render him immune to Water-jutsu...or hell, physical attack? Orochimaru's sheer speed is a crippling obstacle to overcome, but there are Area-of-Effect spells Voldemort can use. Also, a single Impedament Jinx could overcome that, assuming a hit could even be landed.

    Fiendfyre - would water jutsu extinguish it/earth jutsu block it or would it just burn through both? Could it be a valid way of hemming in Orochimaru? Is it just unlimited, murderous Amaterasu?

    How fast is transfiguration/what is the largest thing that can be transfigured? This can change a lot - if it's as fast as summoning, it counters that nicely, and if you can transfigure vast swaths of the forest or the ground...

    What about conjugations, can you conjure something around someone?

    Orochimaru can surely travel through the Earth, Voldemort might not see that coming...what are the limits to Voldemort's flight?

    How much physical force can spells handle? This ties into the Imperturbable/Impervious Charms, and Shield Charms as well.


    ...just random thoughts. I'll try to hash them out better when I'm less tired.
     
  3. KGB

    KGB Headmaster

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    This sort of falls into my pet peeve of dodging spells, especially from someone of Voldemort's skill. It only works until Voldemort pulls a Dumbledore and casts a omnidirectional stunning spell and the dodging is over.

    Another image the instantly struck my head reading this was Voldemort taking flight over his opponent and just lazily peppering them with spells as he floats about the battlefield.

    And the last thought that instantly strikes is the existence of spells that make impervious to outside forces, make objects harder and cancel momentum. No reason why there shouldn't be a spell or combination of spells that negate physical damage to a wizard.
     
  4. gullibleoats

    gullibleoats Seventh Year

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    I was under the impression Legilimency required eye-contact. Occlumency might provide some defense against genjutsu. If I recall correctly, there are two methods of breaking genjutsu: physical harm and spiking your chakra.

    Voldemort works on an entirely different magic system, so he has no chakra to speak of. He could however, break his own finger, as Shikamaru does in his fight against the red-headed girl during the Chuunin Exam arc. He has sufficient magical skill to rectify that nearly immediately.

    Legilimency, likewise, is not something Orochimaru has defense against. But if the assumption holds true that eye-contact is required, then it should be easily avoided. Gai avoids Itachi's eyes. Orochimaru can do the same.

    Voldemort's scope of magic is I think intended to be nearly limitless. He is forever breaking the boundaries of magic, and is shown to be basically the bar in terms of conventional magic and dark magic. In terms of potency, I would say they are equal.

    Voldemort possesses the three unforgivables, as well as the ability to summon lightning, which could be paralleled to Sasuke's Kirin. However, Orochimaru is perfectly capable of blocking those with his Rashomon and other summons. Not to mention he is made out of snakes.

    In terms of physical stamina and strength, Orochimaru has it over Voldemort by a large margin. Despite that, Voldemort is versatile in his ability to shield [protego, which I assume is dome shaped] and his ability to teleport and fly, giving him a maneuverability that Orochimaru does not possess.

    I'd say short-term victory would belong to Orochimaru. Voldemort can definitely be killed. As a duelist, he possesses near inhuman speed. However, Orochimaru is completely inhuman. While Voldemort can compensate for this, as does that goddess in the newer chapters -- Voldemort can also teleport and to an extent alter reality through transfiguration -- Orochimaru's speed and power are undeniable. Voldemort would die in the inital exchange.

    However, this is a battle between immortals. Voldemort has his horcruxes, which I do not believe can be destroyed through conventional jutsu. Whereas, Voldemort possess multiple spells that can instantly destroy objects, humans, and souls -- Fiendyfire, the killing curse, etc.

    In terms of Orochimaru's edo tensei. I don't think it is sufficient. Voldemort is capable of surrounding the dead with other dead, the inferi. Even if they are simply mindless, they are still bodies that need disposing of. Voldemort can call up an army.

    Quantity may not win over quality but quantity may buy time.

    In terms of casting speed, I believe they should be about equal to be honest. Voldemort possesses such an advanced level of control that he only need point and his will is done. Orochimaru moves his fingers really fast. Same speed.

    I think what really wins Voldemort the day is the nonsensical power of his magic. I don't believe there are hard limits. Whereas chakra, although similarly nonsensical, has limits in that it runs out.

    Voldemort can transfigure terrain, freeze bodies, burn things to ashes, bring back the dead, call lightning, summon the worst torture, make himself lighter, faster, stronger, create out of nothing, animate objects, control animals and people and teleport. He has 7 lives. With all of them in use, Orochimaru has no chance.

    What he does have, however, is the initial strike, which I am sure he can win. Voldemort's body seems to me to have normal vulnerability. The same cannot be said for Orochimaru. In one fell swoop, with Voldemort unaware, Orochimaru could end him.

    The trouble comes when he returns.
     
  5. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    Apparently I've offended one of the mods with this thread.
     
  6. KGB

    KGB Headmaster

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    Edit: ----
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  7. Andrela

    Andrela Plot Bunny DLP Supporter

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    This is why we can't have nice things. I mean, I ain't even mad, just disappointed.

    Edit: Nevermind.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2014
  8. Aerylife

    Aerylife Not Equal

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    Tbh you were kinda asking for this, Xanadrel. If the group wasn't going anywhere, why would an open thread be any better than a group of people you know/invited?

    Ps:Batman would win. End debate.
     
  9. Nauro

    Nauro Headmaster

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    You know why the group never got going?

    It was missing that post where you actually posted what you got out of all of the people you sent messages to. EDIT - and nope, I prove a blind person, it was there.

    That, and I forgot to put it on alert.


    EDIT2:

    The problem is that you're making it into Wizards vs Ninjas a lot more than Voldemort vs Orochimaru. When you decide what good is Ninja training vs Magic, and what beats what and how it interacts, you have your answer with two good practitioners of their chosen field.

    EDIT3:
    Figure out the way to ask the question of the DeathBattle folks.
    Since they did Harry vs Luke, I guess Voldemort vs Orochimaru is withing the realm of possibility.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  10. Vincent

    Vincent Death Eater

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    I'd favor Orochimaru if this was a version that could actually use his ninjutsu. Orochimaru's already much faster than Voldemort. When you start adding Mud/Earth clones into the equation it becomes very dangerous. Then there's Orochimaru's sword which can do this. http://www.mangapanda.com/93-300-13/naruto/chapter-295.html Also if Voldemort loses once then Orochimaru will probably take his body and wand for study so no Elder Wand in that fight and get ready for the possibility of tailored poisons.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2014
  11. VanRopen

    VanRopen Headmaster

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    Problem is, while Orochimaru would definitely kill Voldemort the first time, what about the next? An impervious charm should stop the Kusanagi dead, and a bubble-head charm will prevent breathing in poisons.
     
  12. Vincent

    Vincent Death Eater

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    Should it? Has an impervious charm ever stopped a giant's attack dead? Don't such spells usually repel rain water?
     
  13. VanRopen

    VanRopen Headmaster

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    That's where how you interpret magic comes into play.

    I see no reason an impervious charm, which as far as we know just causes repulsion, should stop the sword in its tracks. Or hell, let's say that for whatever reason it only stops water - what about the imperturbable charm? Or an unbreakable charm? Either on a shirt should render it immune to cutting, stabbing or slashing. This is assuming a shield charm isn't already in place, which we know can deflect physical objects without issue.

    Stopping a giant's attack dead shouldn't be a problem. It's just momentum/kinetic force, Wizards regularly no sell that. It is stopping the giant Wizards have trouble with because they are difficult to directly affect with magic, but presumably a skilled wizard would have trouble driving them back indirectly/via transfiguration. There is a reason they are going extinct afterall.
     
  14. SmileOfTheKill

    SmileOfTheKill Magical Amber

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    I see a good argument being made between Voldemort and Orochimaru on the abilities they can do. What I have trouble seeing is the physical difference in speed/reaction times Orochimaru has over Voldemort. How can Voldemort counter that?
     
  15. Aekiel

    Aekiel Angle of Mispeling ~ Prestige ~ DLP Supporter

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    Assuming the two are aware of each other at the start of the fight and know of each other's abilities, I'd give the win to Orochimaru.

    Voldemort has a number of very distinct advantages, but at the end of the day he doesn't have the superhuman physicality that would allow Orochimaru to simply out last him. While magic can no sell pretty much everything chakra can bring to bare, fatigue is still a concern for Voldemort while it is not much of a concern for Orochimaru. Edo Tensei also acts as a force multiplier far in excess of anything Voldemort can bring to bare.

    That said, if Voldemort landed a lucky hit he'd win in an instant, which is something that can't be said for Orochimaru.

    Both of them being effectively immortal makes this a bit of an unending conflict though, since horcruxes and cursed seals can be implanted in basically anything/anyone, respectively.
     
  16. Vincent

    Vincent Death Eater

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    I don't think there's a limit to the amount of curse seals Orochimaru can create and stick on people though.
     
  17. VanRopen

    VanRopen Headmaster

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    I doubt anything short of Amaterasu or a Bijuu can destroy a Horcrux though.
     
  18. Vincent

    Vincent Death Eater

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    If anyone can find a way it would be Oro. Plus if all else fails there's always sealing jutsu.
     
  19. VanRopen

    VanRopen Headmaster

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    ...what would sealing jutsu accomplish? How does sealing away the Horcrux make it any less existent?

    They have pretty equivalent immortality - and I would give the edge to Voldemort's magic. The sheer utility of HP magic can't be matched. The issue here is Orochimaru's speed - once aware of it (after he loses the first battle), can Voldemort find a way to counter it? He can technically defend near perfectly against anything Orochimaru can hit him with (genjutsu being the big question mark), and much of that defense can be prepared beforehand - it's the offense that is problematic.
     
  20. Nauro

    Nauro Headmaster

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    Or, they wouldn't fight at all.

    And join forces to do some research in the Dark Arts of the Forbidden Jutsu, taking over the worlds.
     
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