Westworld

Discussion in 'Movies, Music and TV shows' started by Celestin, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. JErosion

    JErosion Fifth Year

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    A couple of pieces of dialogue makes me doubt that theory now.

    MiB seems to have known Arnold and had a personal hand in stopping the problem from 30 years ago. The MiB also mentions cutting open the old Hosts and marveling at their mechanical insides, meanwhile the Hosts Will and Logan encounter are of the flesh variety. Also Logan tells Will that there was another founder, but couldn't find out what his name was. Also I wonder if the Representative from Devos is Will or if it is the MiB.
     
  2. Solfege

    Solfege Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    MiB was involved in the incident 30 years ago, but all we know is that he knows of Arnold. No signs of a personal acquaintanceship. Plenty of time between then and now to have collated the research, and MiB's been there so long (and is such a baller in-game and IRL) that he can speak familiarly of anyone he pleases.

    Good point about mechanical insides. We can get in a a whirl about how life-like hosts might still be mechanical (especially the older hosts), because the timeline's dissonant enough to make it match up:

    1) 1 year after completing the first insufficient batch of hosts, they passed the Turing test. Indicative of very rapid progress.
    2) Arthur died 34 years ago. The incident was 30 years ago.

    Other pieces are deliberately ambiguous. MiB's Lawrence is El Lazo. Is that part of his full story loop? There's a delay when Logan and Will are set to meet him, and that could be the hosts covering up for Lawrence's recovery once MiB has finished with him.

    Logan tells us that the park's hemorrhaging money, and this could just as well be right after Arthur's suicide, in the years the park's trying to find its footing.

    William's relationship with Logan might be just what pushes him over the edge... we see his developing ruthlessness, a willingness to kill and to leave Logan to his fate. MiB, if we recall, is IRL in charge of an foundation that saves lives (amongst other things).



    Alternately... Logan is the MiB.

    Anyway, veering off into speculation. Nolan's going to be careful about not giving us anything concrete in either direction until the reveal.
     
    Last edited: Nov 4, 2016
  3. Celestin

    Celestin Master of Death

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    The last episode gives enough clues to make two timelines theory 95% likely to be correct. Yet for some unspecific reason, it was a little less engaging that previous ones to me.

    I may have a problem with how they're handling Maeve's "rebellion". While I really liked her journey to upper levels, the music and her subtle reactions were really good, I dislike how they made her super smart now. I'm not going to criticise much that it was even possible when at the same time it wasn't allowed. It should at least have some admin restrictions, if it's as dangerous as I expect it may be. But having two guys willingly do it, no matter how persuasive Maeve is, is rather questionable, unless in Westworld universe all fictions about dangerous AI were never made.
     
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2016
  4. Quick Ben

    Quick Ben In ur docs, stealin ur werds.

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    There was so much stupid in this episode. Damn, who gives a fucking robot who just threatened you all the intelligence, seriously, what?

    Also, why couldn't the blonde guy just agree with Maeve and then Turn her off or completely reduce all her stats to zero.
     
  5. awinarock

    awinarock Heir

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    I thought their reactions made sense tbh. They're just grunts and to their knowledge, something like this has never happened before in the park. They've seen her code and it shouldn't allow her to be autonomous. The blonde guy was caught off guard and scared, and because he doesn't know about Arnold he probably believed that someone higher up in the park is responsible or that the robots are somehow evolving. So he panicked and caved. As for the Asian guy, I think he was just happy that someone, even a dangerous and manipulative robot, acknowledged his ability and encouraged him to grow.

    I'm more interested in why Arnold had the dog killed. It was clearly a reference to Fords childhood, but is he doing it because Ford is responsible for his death and he's getting back at him or trying to send some kind of message? It's really hard to read Ford. He's what I imagine a truly manipulative Dumbledore would be like.
     
  6. Xantam

    Xantam Denarii Host

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    I assumed it was a reference to the story that Ford told about the dog that finally caught the cat.
     
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2016
  7. awinarock

    awinarock Heir

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    I assumed that too, but I was unsure about the purposenof the reference. We know Arnold built the secret hosts and to have the host kill the dog and break Ford's fantasy was eother a threat or a message IMO.
     
  8. Xantam

    Xantam Denarii Host

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    Well the story was about the dog not being able to overcome its nature. Maybe he's saying the nature of the hosts is to kill, as well? But then again, I'm not sure.
     
  9. Avery

    Avery Second Year DLP Supporter

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    All I know is that when an A.I. has the opinion that killing something prevents it from hurting anyone or anything else... that's not really a good sign for humanity.
     
  10. Celestin

    Celestin Master of Death

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    Yeah, people figured out it, but they did it because as any good twist it had a proper setup that allowed it.

    Unfortunately, Ford just lost most of his moral ambivalence and probably became a true villain of the show. Maybe at least Arnold won't turn out to be some kind of a patron saint of Hosts.
     
  11. Necrule Paen

    Necrule Paen DLP Elite DLP Supporter

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    Depends on what Ford is keeping the board from having. Arnold seems to be the serpent to Ford's God, so Idon't think either of them will be looking like a saint at the end of this.
     
  12. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    Really really liking this/borderline evangelizing for it. The last episode, when he can't see the door, the way they did that perspective switch is fucking great.
     
  13. Celestin

    Celestin Master of Death

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    Another good episode though not as good as the last one with its revelations about Bernard.

    Did I understand Ford? He doesn't consider the Hosts to be different from humans. He just doesn't find our species to be anything special. Being alive is just an illusion to everyone. I like that perspective for him instead of just making him dismissive towards possibility that AI can be alive.

    My only problem with the show at the moment is the amount of events that shouldn't be allowed to happen for Maeve to stage her "uprising". For the show like this I would expect a better setup than her winning the main prize in incompetency of everyone else lottery.

    By the way, the best proof about two time frames narrative I have read yet. If it's happening then what do we call MiB's quest for the Maze? Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure. HL3 confirmed. ;)
     
  14. CrackedMind

    CrackedMind Death Eater

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    I hate the Maeve subplot now. I dont particularly like any of the main players characters (her, Slyvester, other dude)- and it's just so ridiculous that she's getting away with so damn much. Are there no cameras watching them tinker with her code?
     
  15. Avery

    Avery Second Year DLP Supporter

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    I gave Maeve a lot of leeway, though I'm starting to fall into the same opinion about her--that she really shouldn't have this much power over the two guys. I suppose Episode 8 sort of 'justified' her hold by proving that it was all because of the sentiment of the Asian dude the entire time, coupled in with the whole "we don't wanna lose our jobs because we'll be so fucked", but it still comes off as pretty weak.

    Bad characterization? Maybe. Weak writing? I'd like to believe not, consider how stunning everything else is.

    I've been viewing it as a contrast to Ford's relationship with his creations--one that's absolute. However, Dolores' relationship with William makes a better (and more convincing) contrast, I feel. I like the terrible irony that it's the hosts who have an emotional hold over humans while humans have to resort to control (without the freedom of choice) to keep the hosts in line.

    Thematically, I'm still very impressed with this. Maeve's 'growth' is almost biblical--you eat the forbidden fruit and you get exactly what you ask for, even if it may not be exactly what you wanted to know.
     
  16. Kai Shek

    Kai Shek Supreme Mugwump

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    Yeah, I like Maeve, but they are trying to progress her story line way too quickly. It would make far more sense if she slowly manipulated the two men onto her side. Her threats are relatively weak when they can simply quit and start over somewhere else. Is the job that doesn't even pay them enough to enjoy Westworld really that important to them?

    The Asian guy kind of seems into it though. I think he's just along for the ride. In the real world, the bearded guy would have resigned and threw his partner under the boss, or would have just gotten the fuck out.
     
  17. Xiph0

    Xiph0 Administrator Admin

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    All I can say is fuck that episode. Dolores talking to Bernard in the basement made me so, so sad.
     
  18. omnipotentatus

    omnipotentatus First Year

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    Yeah, this episode was sad.
    Bernard's fate was sad, I suspect he will either permanently be killed off, or Maeve will get Felix to repair Bernard. I don't think Ford is gonna bother putting him back together this time around, even if Bernard is a host based on Arnold (which was confirmed this episode). I think William was an unsympathetic person in this episode, even though in the previous ones he tried to be the good guy. I suspect this is where he becomes the MiB.
    But I am definitely looking forward to the season ending, I suspect we'll get to see what happens to Arnold. The season ending is supposedly going to be 90 minutes long, so I'm just sitting here, sad that I will have to wait an entire week for it.
     
  19. Peter North

    Peter North Dark Lord

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    What's even sadder than this episode is the fact that we won't get season 2 until sometime in 2018.
     
  20. Celestin

    Celestin Master of Death

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    To be honest all mysteries and theories aside, depending on how the next episode ends, I may not be that excited for the next season. Why? Because while other actors are good, it's Anthony Hopkins and Jeffrey Wright that make this show exceptional and both likely won't appear in the second season.