WIP Path of the King by Neoalfa - M - F/Stay Night

Discussion in 'Fate/Stay Night' started by Probellum, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. NuitTombee

    NuitTombee Dark Lord

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    Shirou is an "annoying and selfrighteous douche"?

    Huh, don't believe I've ever seen anyone express a similar opinion. Mostly I've seen people talk about how stupid and single-minded he is about saving people.

    What makes him so to you?
     
  2. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    There is definitely a hate camp for Shirou, but it exists because he's dumb as a sack of wet bowling balls, at times. And he jackhammered Rin? I'll never forgive him for being such a brute.

    This is fanfiction, so if the protagonist doesn't fall into some number of skills it's likely because there won't actually be any physical conflict. I agree some of his skills come at too short a cost, but he does have to fight servants. What do you expect? If you don't give him the skills to fight them, then he can't, and then there isn't much to write about - Shirou just gets fucked the moment Saber decides to swing her sword.

    Shirou is also pretty special in terms of his magecraft - it's unique and powerful, but at an extreme cost: he'll never be able to utilize other magic. And he'll probably never be respected by the magical community, though I imagine he doesn't care about that. There should probably be more downsides, to make the use of it more weighted, but...

    I don't see Shirou as "self-righteous". That's a really bad way to describe him. Since when do self-righteous people have zero self-preservation instinct? Since then are they humble to a fault? Self-righteous impllies they're full of themselves, which Shirou is not. Shirou is incapable of caring about himself. Incapable of boasting, bragging, and doing good for the sake of image. He's not even righteous - he's just obsessed with being a "hero".
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2013
  3. Nemrut

    Nemrut The Black Mage Prestige

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    Maybe there are better ways to describe him but, dunno, I still think it fits. Shirou is utterly convinced that his way of doing things is right, that he knows when other people are wrong or what they should do or shouldn't do, that it is he alone that should take risks.

    It might be on the other side of the spectrum, but that is still righteousness the way I understand it. He is a fanatic. While he has zero self preservation instincts and does not think he deserves to live, he still holds his own values as beyond approach. So, in a way, yes, he is not a poser self righteous douche, he is a true righteous fanatic to his own ideals.
     
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  4. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    I guess the connotation for me is that someone is self-righteous/righteous when they "know" they are right. I don't get that impression from Shirou, who is always weighing the costs of his actions in regards to human life. He doesn't know what choice will save the most lives; that's one reason why he's involving Rin. He knows he can't do everything on his own and that he'll need the input and assistance of others; not that he'll trouble people who have no direct connection to the war.

    Shirou is definitely obsessive/fanatic over being a "hero" and "saving as many lives as possible" but righteous he is not.

    His ideal is pretty uncompromising and that's the reason Archer comes to exist at all.
     
  5. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Unspeakable

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    I think the reason that Shirou is falling into skills is that I kinda foresee that instead of having Caster vs Servant battles, we are going to see Caster-empowered Shirou vs Servant battles, in the way of what Caster and Kuzuki were from the original novel. There's just too much build-up for Shirou's skills for it to be anything else.
     
  6. neoalfa

    neoalfa Squib

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    Yeah, I pretty much agree with that perspective.

    Edit: Nemrut, thanks for the elaborate review you left on the latest chapter.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2013
  7. Probellum

    Probellum Death Eater

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  8. Airilife

    Airilife Top 1 Percent Prestige

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    Shouldn't this be counted as a Tsukihime cross if he encounters Roa/Arc?
     
  9. Jarik

    Jarik Chief Warlock

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    Initially I wasn't really all that interested in the crossover route this was taking - just wanted it to get on with the Grail War - but this chapter actually has me pretty intrigued on how Shirou will affect the events of Tsukihime.

    Got bored of Fate Far Side and haven't really seen any other decent FSN/Tsukihime crossovers, but this could be quite an interesting interlude before the Grail War. I wonder whether this will actually tie into the Holy Grail War or just be a side story?
     
  10. Tasoli

    Tasoli Headmaster

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    Since they are in the same universe it isn't really crossover. He could also take elements from Notes and it still wouldn't be a Crossover. It would be a crossover if he uses KnK though.
     
  11. Legacy

    Legacy Unspeakable DLP Supporter

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    I really like where this is going, if this actually becomes a major alteration to the world where the events of Tsukihime start to merge with the holy grail war I will be very happy. That and I've got this image in my head of Roa and Gilgamesh meeting and not being big fans of each other. Would be an interesting fight.
     
  12. Airilife

    Airilife Top 1 Percent Prestige

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    Yeah, it would be amusing to say the least.
     
  13. Oxy

    Oxy DA Member

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    Actually, it doesn't necessarily need to take place in another universe in order for it to be considered a crossover. The only real requirement is that elements from one work interacts with elements from another work. This includes characters, setting etc.

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CrossoverIndex
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  14. Probellum

    Probellum Death Eater

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    I guess you could call it one on a technicality, but I see this more as bringing in the expanded universe. Personally, I wouldn't call Batman popping over Metropolis to help Superman with a problem a crossover, but maybe that's just me. The same thing applies here.
     
  15. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Unspeakable

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    Word of God for the Nasu-verse is that each individual series--even each route of each series--takes place within its own individual alternate timeline. So the Tsukihime-verse takes place in an alternate reality than Fate/Stay Night, which takes place in a different reality than KnK. It's to help avoid a continuity snarl.
     
  16. Jarik

    Jarik Chief Warlock

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    It's one thing that always disappointed me a bit with the Nasu-verse. Even though they're all separate stories, it'd be cool just to have a bit more linkage between them.
     
  17. yak

    yak Moderator Moderator DLP Supporter

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    Most of the community considers them to be the same 'verse, and it's easier for classification purposes.

    That's according to the TypeMoon wiki, and they're sourcing Fate/Complete Material Vol. III - World Material. Nasu might've changed his mind since then, but there's still precedence to classify them as the same 'verse.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2013
  18. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    Kara no Kyoukai is in the same universe as Tsukihime and Fate. KnK is actually Nasu's earliest work in the universe (thus, the story has been revised many times in his head as the universe was still in its formative state), but many of the characters in it are at least mentioned once or twice in either of the successive major works. Melty Blood also features Ryougi Shiki.

    I really don't think this story has anything to do with Tsukihime and consider it weakening the tone of the story by including it in its scope, but I guess it's interesting. I do like crossing over the two stories (and it'd be fun if someone like Ciel became a Master in the war), but I don't get where this is going with all this.
     
  19. Brukel

    Brukel Groundskeeper DLP Supporter

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    Presumably a power up for Shirou or at least more combat experience prior to the war. Get the feeling Caster isn't going to survive which is a shame, quite like her, both here and in the novel.
     
  20. Chime

    Chime Dark Lord

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    Why wouldn't she survive and what gives you the impression we'd go down a dark road like that? Maybe if he wants a sad ending, but she can't die right away, that would make a lot of this all pointless.
     
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