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What you think of Harry/Ginny?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by ChosenOne, Dec 2, 2017.

  1. masterpeng

    masterpeng Squib DLP Supporter

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    To be honest, this is all a matter of taste. As someone, who takes grades and academics very serious, basically a Hermione trait, it makes me much less averse to Harry/Hermione. Besides, a Hermione portrayed by Emma Watson simply outscores Ginny.

    Personally, I don't dislike Harry/Ginny in general. On a sidenote, I might not like "Ginny" or "Ginevra" because in my opinion it's an awful name, but that's just me making an issue out of nothing. After reading fanfiction for years, including, although mostly accidentally and regretfully, Harry/Ginny fluff and all that knight and princess stuff, I can't help but be wary of any new Harry/Ginny story recommendations.
     
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2018
  2. ASmallBundleOfToothpicks

    ASmallBundleOfToothpicks Professor

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    My interest in Harry/Ginny entirely depends on how well realized the author can make Ginny. Rowling just didn't give Ginny a ton of screen time, which means that she's not overly developed as a character, compared to, say, Hermione, Tonks, or even Luna. If the fanfiction author can take Ginny in an interesting direction, I'll read it. However, 99% of the time she's just relegated to bargain bin Bella Swan- which is pretty damn pathetic.

    It's kind of a shame really, since I think you could actually turn Ginny into quite the little dark witch, if an author were so inclined. Basically take all of the hilariously shitty characterization from Indy-Harry stories, and apply it to Ginny. I'd read the shit out of that, if it were well handled.
     
  3. Zeemz

    Zeemz Second Year

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    Ginny is cool. I prefer her as a pairing compared to Hermione. I don't remember the fic, but there was a Ginny that really seemed like she had 6 bothers and grew up poor. If that makes any sense. She had home remedies for looking/smelling good and played in the mud when she was younger. Made the character more interesting than throwing in a bat bogey every now and then.
     
  4. vlad

    vlad Seventh Year Prestige

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    Ginny Weasley
    Ginevra Weasley
    Grea ivra wealy es
    Greenas Wivra Ealy
    Wivrad lanye Greegas
    Darpwi ne Greegas
    Darwin ph Greegass
    Daphne Greengrass

    Woah.
     
  5. Zeelthor

    Zeelthor Scissor Me Timbers

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    I feel that somewhere in the background the theme from X-Files is playing.
     
  6. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 Prestige

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    Wait a second, she isn't as developed as Luna or Tonks? Really?

    In Luna, we get a girl caught up in her own fantasy world that knows to take care of the few friends she has. And, that's it. She gets fun little comments and scenes here and there, but no more character development. Tonks, on the other hand, is an Auror who falls in love and gets killed. She has a cool gift that does no good in the end. Oh, and she provides fodder for Snape at one point. Besides that, pretty much any character can fill her role.

    Then, there's Ginny. At first, she's the love-sick little girl that is shy around her childhood hero. Everyone makes way too much about it. I think over half the 8, 9, 10 year olds I know have a hero-crush on someone a bit older than them, and inevitably, the all fall away. Ginny shows up as that little girl in her first year, but by the end of it, she's unique in that she's the only person until Harry's fifth year that knows what is like to be possessed by Voldemort. Hold on to that thought for a moment, because it becomes very important.

    For the next couple of years, Ginny fades into the background, just as she has to in order for any romance with her to work. Ginny gets the chance to grow up off-screen. This way, she's not "Ron's little sister" to Harry. She's not the tag-along that everyone feels sorry for. She gets to be her own character. That character begins to show up in the fourth book when she's comforting Ron after he asked Fleur out. It's an uncomfortable scene because she really doesn't know what to do—which is strange seeing as I've read several people over the years trying to call her a Mary Sue (but she can't comfort her own brother?). That character comes out even stronger in her next year. She begins to show a strength of character in the fifth book, beginning with the meeting for the DA. Skipping the small building in the book, her character gets her "coming out" scene where she is no longer a child, but a person able to stand toe-to-toe with Harry that Christmas when Harry reveals he's afraid he's being possessed by Voldemort. She basically gets in his face and calls him stupid for not talking to her since she's the only other one that understands. It puts them on an even playing field that not even Hermione or Ron can approach. Here strength of character continues developing until we find that she is one of the six that is fighting Death Eaters in the Ministry (Yes, alongside Luna as well).

    We also see she's a bit pig-headed, such as when she crashes into the announcer's stand in her fifth year to run over Zacharias Smith whom she doesn't like. It proves also to be a type of foreshadowing as he's the only DA member to run out of Hogwarts before the Battle of Hogwarts. The whole thing between her and Harry and their splitting up is meant to provide a counter to Cho. Harry couldn't handle Cho because of her emotional issues with the Death of Cedric. It confused him and moreover, her relationship with him would have demanded a split with Hermione. Counter to that, she accepts his decision with little emotion because she understands him and what he has to do. She also seems to have no problem with him and Hermione showing she doesn't have the inferiority complex that caused her to be so shy at the beginning of the series.

    Finally, in the last book, although behind the scenes as far as the book is concerned, she takes on leadership of the DA along with Neville.

    No, all in all, I think she has fantastic character development for a character that was never intended to be a main character in the series. That's what gets so many confused. They want her character development to be a main character, character development. There's only three people who get that. Harry, Ron, and Hermione. And, JKR fails at Ron's and Hermione's development as well. So . . .

    tl;dr - She's not a main character, so stop demanding development as if she were one (imho).
     
  7. Chengar Qordath

    Chengar Qordath The Final Pony Prestige

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    I suppose one could argue about whether the Hero's love interest should have been a more central character to the series, but that's going into a whole other issue that would require some pretty big structural changes to the entire series.
     
  8. ASmallBundleOfToothpicks

    ASmallBundleOfToothpicks Professor

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    I will demand whatever I damn well please- which of course has no bearing on whether or not I'll get it. Take your humble opinion, be countered by my humbler (and therefore objectively better) opinion: Your list of character traits and events she partook in does little to prove Ginny has a personality and identity beyond "stubborn and vindictive" in Canon. (Your humble opinion rings even more hollow when you consider that I've never actually compared her to a main character, or required a similar level of characterization.)- edit Actually I did when I compared her to Hermione, so this is factually incorrect, my bad.

    I stand by my point that Ginny isn't developed compared to most of the other side characters in the series. Look, while she gets to have a character arc, that's not what I'm talking about in her being a developed character. Out of all of the side characters of prominence, Ginny is the only one without a unique voice. Luna, Tonks, Fleur, Lupin, Sirius, Dumbledore, definitely Snape, Neville, Aunt Petunia, even Molly goddamn Weasley- they all have a clear cadence that is unique to them on the page, and it gives us insight into their perspective. Ginny never gets that. We never get to see inside Ginny except when she's an eleven year old girl crushing on a celebrity her brother made friends with. That's why she gets stuck with garbage characterization in most fanfiction- people have little else to latch onto. This doesn't excuse them from being shitty writers though. With the events in her life, there is a lot interesting ways to explore her character- Ginny Weasley is a great character to expand upon in fanfiction because of how little she has be way of identity.

    Also, anyone calling Ginny a Mary Sue has no idea what it actually refers to- writing a character that the world revolves around propping up. It's not a character archetype so much as an artifact of shitty writing. The Wizarding World does not revolve around telling (not showing) us how awesome Ginny Weasley is. Some fanfiction has turned Ginny into a Mary Sue, but not canon. Hell- I'd probably have more of an attachment to the character if she was a little more Sue-ish.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  9. Averis

    Averis Don of Delivery Prestige

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    I always thought that Rowling's greatest failure as a writer was that she obviously wanted to steer clear of romance in the novels because they were "young adult" books and it was too squicky to consider her characters having serious "relations", but she ultimately projected love as the greatest and most important power Harry has against his nemesis. His mother's love, his love for Sirius, his love and trust in his closest friends... but not once was it mentioned how his love for Ginny helps him.

    If anything, Harry neglects Ginny in order to focus on the task ahead. While some could make the case for this being Harry's nobility coming to the forefront and her importance to him being only a distraction in the fight, Dumbledore has literally smashed him over the head with the idea that love is his greatest strength. Ginny, if he truly is in love with her by the time of book seven, should have been Harry's power up -- not something he ran from.

    Of course, it's just my opinion, but I feel like Harry should have tried to push her away and failed -- she just means too much to him for him to not care what happens. The year away from her while she's at Hogwarts, surrounded by Death Eaters and sympathizers, should have been too much for him.

    TL;DR - Ginny should have had a bigger part to play in the rundown. Rowling missed several opportunities to make her more important to the "story" and Harry himself at the end of the series, and I think this is why people will always look at her a bit sideways. The best fanfics will always have a better Ginny than Rowling.
     
  10. Shinysavage

    Shinysavage Madman With A Box Prestige

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    @Averis I'd never thought about it like that, but that's a great point. Although it is perhaps worth noting that Ginny is one of if not the last person Harry thinks about before he 'dies' in the Forest. You could argue, albeit tenuously, that his love for her helped him out there somehow.
     
  11. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 Prestige

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    Oh, at the very least, in the last couple of books.
     
  12. ginevrabamf

    ginevrabamf First Year

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    Could Ginny have gotten more development? Yes, but to say that Ginny isn't developed at all is not correct. She definitely does have her unique voice to add to the story: for example, as has already been mentioned, Ginny is the only person we know of in the series apart from Harry who has been touched so intimately by Voldemort's evil and moral corruption. That has to add a wealth of depth to her character. In fact, one can even compare her character development to that of another character in the "Sextet": Neville. Both of them in the beginning are shy and self-effacing, but grow to be leaders and war heroes.

    In truth, I think that the few issues regarding Ginny's development can be traced to DH. For a "secondary" character, her development was perfectly fine up until end of HBP or beginning of DH. Some issues, but really nothing to blow out of proportion. But compared to OotP and HBP, Ginny seems somewhat downgraded, particularly during the battle. For example: Ginny should definitely have destroyed one of the Horcruxes (Nagini or the Diadem most likely). I mean why Crabbe, of all people, rather than Ginny? That's a missed opportunity! Think of it, she avenges her possession by Tom Riddle through a Horcrux by destroying one herself.

    So to try and fix Ginny's character, I would have loved some more stuff on Ginny's experiences with Tom Riddle, on how she relaxes around Harry and becomes his friend, some more exposure as to how she led the DA with Neville and Luna, and a reuniting scene between her and Harry. So yeah, some stuff to improve, but as said already, that doesn't mean that she isn't developed.

    I really think this is a direct repercussion of JKR wanting to hash out all of the seven books through the "Trio" formula, and therefore she probably thought that introducing a fourth "main" member in DH would make things even more complicated, especially considering the drama surrounding Ron. The issues with Ron were not resolved until at least two-thirds through DH, and probably one can make the case until the end of the book when he and Hermione kiss. She may also have felt that this would make the book too "character-centric" or "relationship-centric" and focus less on the world-building, plot progression and Dumbledore's backstory. So it's for those two reasons (maybe there are more) that JKR probably wanted to "abandon" Ginny for the Greater Good (given that this is one of the themes in DH LOL).
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
  13. ASmallBundleOfToothpicks

    ASmallBundleOfToothpicks Professor

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    I actually never said Ginny wasn't developed. I said quite specifically compared her to equally important characters, like Tonks. The difference between Ginny and Tonks is that we understand Tonks's motive much better: She's a furry who's into angsty older men. She joined the Order for the sole purpose of meeting up with her dream guy- and boy howdy, did she find him in Lupin. A middle-aged werewolf with commitment issues stemming from his circle of friends spontaneously imploding in a frenzy of betrayal was exactly what Nymphadora Tonks needed to get hot and bothered. Ginny, on the other hand, clearly only wants to be the mother of Harry's children because she was groomed to by her parents with bedtime stories. *rolls eyes*

    Seriously though, I don't disagree that Ginny can be a great romantic pairing for Harry. There are a few interesting routes to take the relationship and her character. The only issue I have with her in canon is how suddenly we were expected to have an emotional attachment to her without a reason. In fanfiction, as long as the writer has something interesting to add to her character beyond "badass enough for Harry" and "future mother of Harry's Children," I'm game.

    I agree. This is where Ginny got shoved into the spotlight without narrative justification. For three books, Harry had bigger fish to fry than teenage romance. Then, suddenly, he's got a crush on his friend's sister that he needs to drive away because of his insecurities. Realistic? Yes. I myself have been an insecure teenager, and goddamn, did I push crushes away because of insecurities. I was much more successful at it than Harry, though. However, it wasn't justified in the story, at least from my reading.

    Ginny's character doesn't need to be fixed. It needs to be expanded upon and justified. When I have a clearer idea why Luna or Hagrid does things than I do for Ginny, who gets a lot more screen time, that is a problem.

    Want her to be a temperamental tomboy? Easy to justify with 6 brothers growing up, two of which are Fred and George, who seem like the type to target Ginny with their pranks. Give it some screentime, though. What

    Want to make her an emotional wreck desperately clinging to facade of normality? Show how being Riddle's puppet for a year fucked her up.

    Want to turn her into the Dark Lady Ginevramort? Show how being a vessel to the Horcrux warped her brain.
     
  14. AmerigoCorleone

    AmerigoCorleone Seventh Year

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    Ginny should have been the secondary character in the last two books, Harry's lifeline and support, helping him recover after the death of Sirius, then dating, and hunting for horcruxes.

    Of course, we all know why that never happened. Couldn't ha e Hermione Sue be overshadowed
     
  15. LordPotter

    LordPotter Squib

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    I am completely unable to tolerate Harry/Fan-girl (whoops! I mean Ginny) pairing based fics. I prefer stories with Harry paired with ANY girl whose feelings aren't based upon her hero-worship of the BWL. (In Ginny's case ever since she was a little girl.) I can't stand Ginny because the root/basis of her feelings are for the BWL first and foremost. It's disingenuous, shallow and disgusting for Harry, a boy denied love most of his life by an old-man using him as a weapon in a war, to wind up in a relationship with a fan-girl whose feelings are for the heroic image and fame of the BWL - NOT the real Harry Potter, a boy enslaved by the Dursleys and knowing little but "neglect and often cruelty" for most of his life. He needs love, not someone attracted to (lusting for) him because of his fame and/or wealth. Ginny was every bit as shallow as those young women that chase after sports stars, rock bands and/or pursue and marry 75 year old millionaire guys for their fame and money. Another reason I dislike her is that she is a textbook example of a "Mary-Sue" character - the sudden and "perfect" in every way soul-mate for the poor abused hero. However, the best argument against this pairing is to ask yourself who Ginny would have pursued and married had Neville Longbottom been the Boy-Who-Lived instead of Harry Potter. There is no denying the truth to that. Quite sad isn't it? And it proves my point entirely.
    --- Post automerged ---
    And how many people have other canon characters dated?
    One, two at most (Cho).

    So, by JKR's standards, she's a slut.

    In the HP world, you get married after Hogwarts. Lily and James married young.

    To think you'll find your true love at age 16 shows it's a different world. How many people has Hermione dated. None. She went to a ball with someone, kissed someone but hasn't dated anyone. Ron? One person, maybe. Maybe no one.

    Harry? One person, maybe. Now two.

    So Ginny comes out of nowhere and dates 3 people?

    She's a slut by the book's standards.

    She's also a Mary Sue.
    --- Post automerged ---
    I like to think Lily Potter and Ginny are only similar in that they had red hair. Ginny is an idiot, Lily was not. Ginny is a fangirl that has lusted after Harry since she could say Harry Potter, Lily hated James until he matured. Ginny is a slut, there is no evidence that Lily was. Ginny is a bitch most of the time, Lily was said to be a kind person unless annoyed.
     
  16. Plotless

    Plotless Professor

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    How does dating 3 people by the time mean Ginny is 16 slutty? The fact we don't see ore of that is more indicative of the the fact the story doesn't focus on romance rather than the standards of all wizards being different. This whole post has incel vibes that are pretty damn creepy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  17. DrSarcasm

    DrSarcasm Unspeakable

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    Honest question: How long has it been since you read the books? Too much fanfiction tends to warp how you see the characters in my experience. Stories on the whole tend to get insular and exaggerate character traits and that kind of sounds like what your opinion is based off of. Ginny was a fangirl in book one and at least part of book two. Somewhere along the line though, she just became a girl with a crush. A fangirl allows her obsession about a perfect relationship warp how they approach their intended, while a crush does not. Ginny is able to form relationships outside of Harry's circle of friends (such as Luna), she was able to date other guys (which I honestly believe never went farther than kissing), and didn't live for Harry's approval (she harshly told him off when he didn't come to her when he thinks he was possessed by Voldemort when there was someone who had been possessed by him right there.)

    I don't recall seeing any indication that she was after Harry for his money or fame. If she were after him for his money, we would have seen her demanding him to buy her things. If she were after him for his fame, she would have been trying to display herself attached to him or bragging about it, which we didn't see. Remember: she hadn't made a single move to get Harry to want to date her, HE decided that he wanted her all on his own. If she was after Harry for his wealth and fame, she wouldn't have let Harry break up with her to 'protect her' at the end of HBP--there would be no guarantee that he would come back to her and a status-climber wouldn't have allowed that.

    There's also not any indication that Ginny is a slut. Yes she dated three guys, but that's all that we know--that she dated them. Remember that Ginny is a teenaged girl--unless British/Wizarding culture is very different compared to my American experience, teenage girls tend to be rather picky about who they give away their virginity to (given the whole 'no boys allowed' staircase for girls and no equivalent for the boys side, this probably holds true). Given that Ginny never completely gave up on Harry, I can see Ginny never crossing that line until Harry and/or marriage--hell, she probably never kissed either of the two boys until she found out that Harry had kissed Cho. Given that Ginny would have been in effectively middle school around or the first year of high school, this isn't that out of place. In general, the fumblings of teenager romances tend to be a lot slower in how they progress compared to the more experienced dating of upper years/college students.
     
  18. Ludwig

    Ludwig Third Year

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    I'm starting to think he never really read the books.

    Maybe he only reads fanfiction and not the source material. It would explain a lot.
     
  19. Joe's Nemesis

    Joe's Nemesis High Score: 2,058 Prestige

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    This is getting amusing: Ginny isn't mentioned enough, ergo, she shouldn't have been paired with Harry. Ginny is mentioned a little more than others because she dates two other guys (hence, foreshadowing?) ergo, she's a slut and shouldn't have been paired with Harry.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2018
  20. Moukaboy

    Moukaboy Fifth Year

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    To be fair J.K Rowling did drop the ball by giving Ginny so little time in the spotlight.

    Probably why there is so many jealousy/love/lust potions in your typical Ginny bashing fanfiction.
    The change in Harry's feelings felt very abrupt to many readers, myself included.